SL2-S vs iPhone 14 Pro

[beewee]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I’ve been testing out the new iPhone 14 Pro and shooting it alongside the SL2-S. So far, the 48MP ProRAW DNGs coming out of the main camera are extremely impressive and gives the SL2-S a run for its money in both dynamic range and optical performance.

The iPhone 14 Pro 24mm equivalent main camera is 90-95% there compared to the SL2-S + 16-35 SL in terms of dynamic range and optical performance after post-processing in Lightroom.

You can guess which photo is from which.

Image 1:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Image 2:

Edited October 3, 2022 by beewee

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[beewee]

Please click on the image for higher resolution version.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by beewee

[frame-it]

img 1 is the phone and img2 is the sl2s?

Edited October 3, 2022 by frame-it

[Photoworks]

1st image must be the iPhone , always too much shadow and highlight recovery.

[Cobram]

First SL2s, second iPhone.

[huwm]

1st phone 2nd SL2S ?

I use my 13 Pro a fair bit as an image notebook, but mainly as cash card tbh and switch to Q2 or SL2 for photos for reasons unrelated to image quality for the most part.

My cameras are used for the pure pleasure I get from their use, which I can't ever see any multifunction device even beginning to approach, and to encourage mindfulness in my meanderings through retired life.

 

[insomnia]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Photoworks:

1st image must be the iPhone , always too much shadow and highlight recovery.

Well, it's up to you now with the DNG files. If you import them to Lightroom they are strongly underexposed - but if you start to adjust the exposure you notice there's extreme headspace available, so there must be a HDR underlying (makes sense as it takes about 2-3 seconds to take a 48 MP image in RAW, even with the fairly potent image processor).

The second surprise comes when zooming in the first time. I would not have expected the level of details it's capturing - they waited long for a resolution increase, but they sure have delivered on it. It's not 48 MP with a Mono camera or a no AA-Filter full frame, but it sure doesn't feel like a file from a smartphone. If you don't do anything to the files, I would say it's one the same level as the 24 MP SL2-S when seen at the same (significant) magnification. 

With the SL2-S (and the pixel level sharpness) you do have the Joker of AI-Upscaling in Lightroom, which is working out of the box in about 9/10 cases for me, sometimes it's creating patterns which you would need to take care of manually.

Overall, for my city-trips that's good news, won't need to change down to the 28 as often. The best give away which file is which: iPhone is 4:3 aspect ratio.

[insomnia]

Have a look for yourself, I've only stripped GPS info:

Dropbox-Download (70 MB)

Should look without edit something like this (otherwise you're seeing the embedded JPG which indeed looks like an overdone Apple HDR).

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[hoolyproductions]

Nice shots and thanks for the comparison.

I got a 14 Pro a couple of weeks ago and yesterday had my first proper trial doing some 'candid landscapes', shooting RAW mode while on an autumn bike ride.

As noted above, the exposure latitude is astonishing - but when making other adjustments like contrast, dehaze and blackpoint I very quickly hit a 'ceiling' and found quite little latitude. 

The resulting shots were more than fine for instragram and the 'take home' for me is that I no longer need to consider taking a 'real' camera on bike rides where every gram counts. Happy days! However when doing 'serious' landscape I still see quite some difference in the files and will still no doubt occasionally regret not having my SL2-S or Q2 with me.

[beewee]

Nice to see the interest here. I’ll give this post a week and let you guys know which photo is from which camera.  

3 hours ago, hoolyproductions said:

but when making other adjustments like contrast, dehaze and blackpoint I very quickly hit a 'ceiling' and found quite little latitude. 

Interesting. I haven’t noticed this with dehaze but I’ll be sure to fiddle around a bit more here. For contrast and black point, I haven’t found it an issue but I did notice that the embedded color profile is very different than the Apple ProRAW profile in lightroom. I mainly stuck to the embedded profile and then adjusted the exposure settings to get the look I want and yes, there is a ton of latitude for adjustment.

3 hours ago, hoolyproductions said:

The resulting shots were more than fine for instragram and the 'take home' for me is that I no longer need to consider taking a 'real' camera on bike rides where every gram counts. Happy days! However when doing 'serious' landscape I still see quite some difference in the files and will still no doubt occasionally regret not having my SL2-S or Q2 with me.

Totally agree with you on this one. For things like skiing, I think I will leave the SL2-S at home. I’ll just take the iPhone 14 Pro and an Insta360 One RS 1” edition.

[Olaf_ZG]

The iPhone - which ever number - must be rubbish as it doesn’t have a Leica lens.

Credit given, (i)phone images can be good, but for me, I still can’t get used to how to use them… 

Try running in the rain, while phone is wet, and unlock your screen… 

[profus]

On 10/3/2022 at 11:31 AM, insomnia said:

Well, it's up to you now with the DNG files. If you import them to Lightroom they are strongly underexposed - but if you start to adjust the exposure you notice there's extreme headspace available, so there must be a HDR underlying (makes sense as it takes about 2-3 seconds to take a 48 MP image in RAW, even with the fairly potent image processor).

Why don't you use Apple ProRaw profile as starting point? In that case the image is not underexposed, Apple engine corrections are applied but you still have DNG file to play with...
Win-win I would say...

[beewee]

1 hour ago, profus said:

Why don't you use Apple ProRaw profile as starting point? In that case the image is not underexposed, Apple engine corrections are applied but you still have DNG file to play with...
Win-win I would say...

I found the embedded profile gave me more malleability compared to the ProRaw profile and makes it more easy to achieve the look I want.  

[insomnia]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb profus:

Why don't you use Apple ProRaw profile as starting point? In that case the image is not underexposed, Apple engine corrections are applied but you still have DNG file to play with...
Win-win I would say...

I'd rather hit the Automatic Exposure in Lightroom as a starting point. I was not complaining about this 😉

[beewee]

It’s been about a week so here’s the answer to which image is from which camera.

Image 1: iPhone 14 Pro, wide angle (24mm equiv) without crop

Image 2: SL2-S, 16-35 SL @ around 20mm

In comparing the output at least between the two photos, I can summarize my observations as follows:

• Dynamic range
  • Since the photos were not taken at exactly the same time and exposure settings, I hesitate to draw any hard conclusions but I can say that both cameras offer some really useable dynamic range that gives a ton of flexibility for post processing in lightroom.
• Colour
  • Although I was able to achieve very similar colours, the SL2-S appears to have slightly more colour fidelity and separation in the yellow foliage. Even though the iPhone 14 Pro image has higher resolution, especially in the center of the frame, and zooming in from Lightroom revealed more detail, the SL2-S offered slightly more clarity/separation in the yellow foliage when zoomed out and viewed normally. I think this is likely coming from the red channel and Leica has been known to put a lot of effort over the past few years in the red colour filters in the sensor to achieve deep reds and natural skin tones. I think this is also helping with the deep yellow foliage in this case.
• Optics/details
  • It’s hard to separate what aspects are coming from the digital processing pipeline and what are from the lenses but I’m impressed overall with the iPhone 14 Pro. When I first heard about the 48 MP sensor, I bemoaned that it would just create larger files without being able to actually resolve more detail but that’s not the case here. The iPhone 14 Pro can indeed resolve very well out to almost the extreme corners. Even the extreme corners look acceptable.
  • The most noticeable issue I’ve noticed with the iPhone 14 Pro camera is the presence of some reasonably controlled blooming/fringing and chromatic aberration in high detail areas with bright background where there is sky behind the top of the larch trees. Here, the presence of blooming/fringing and chromatic aberration results in degraded image quality for such scenes.
  • The good news for the iPhone 14 Pro is that the new lenses seem to have finally fixed the issue with ghosting that was very problematic with iPhones 11-13 due to reflections off the sensors and the lens coatings.
  • In the case of the 16-35 SL, the lens performs very well and stacks up against the iPhone 14 Pro’s wide camera. I’ve had limited time playing with the 12 MP ultra-wide (14mm equiv) and telephoto (77mm equiv) camera on the iPhone 14 Pro but in the limited time that I’ve shot with them, the ultra-wide has very poor image quality on the edges but the telephoto is quite useable. The 16-35 SL absolutely crushes the ultra-wide camera on the iPhone 14 Pro and it’s not even worth comparing the two because they are so different and the iPhone 14 Pro’s ultrawide is so inferior. I’m not sure if it’s just my phone but I got the impression that my iPhone 12 Pro had a better quality ultra-wide than my iPhone 14 Pro.

So will I still carry the SL2-S or will I use the iPhone 14 Pro in its place?

• For any situation where I really do want to capture high quality images beyond 24 mm in either direction, the SL2-S still has its uses. This is especially the case when I’m shooting with the 90-280, ultra wide landscapes at 16mm, and astrophotos at 14mm for milky way and northern lights
• I would not hesitate at all shooting with the iPhone 14 Pro’s main wide camera in Raw for ‘important’ images but I wouldn’t really bother with the ultra-wide
• To me, 24mm is my favourite focal length for everyday shooting and there are certainly situations where I’d be happy to shoot with just a 24mm. In fact, for many many of years, I primarily shot with a M8.2 + 18 SEM (24mm equiv) and the M10 + 24 Elmar-M. And had the Q2 been designed with a 24mm, I probably would have gotten that one too.
• At this point, the iPhone 14 Pro main camera has basically taken up the role of a theoretical Q2 with 24mm lens. The fact that it fits in my pocket and is with me all the time means I don’t need to carry another camera like a Q2 to get some amazing results, that’s an amazing thing.
• When I’m out and my goal it take photographs such as on travel or hiking in the mountains, the SL2-S will come with me.
• For situations where my primary goal is not photography, such as when I’m out skiing or climbing, I wouldn’t hesitate to leave the SL2-S behind and lean on the 24mm equiv iPhone 14 Pro main camera for a day out in the mountains. I would not feel like I’m giving up too much by shooting with the iPhone 14 Pro in ProRaw as compared to the SL2-S.
• With all this being said, if Leica does release a 100 MP SL3 body and the long-awaited 21mm and 24mm APO-Summicron SL, that would tip the equation back toward the SL3 + APO-Summicron. I have the 28mm APO-Summicron and the look and resolving power of the 28 APO is just unreal and on another level that can’t be matched by any of the SL zooms. My only gripe with it is that it’s not 24mm or 21mm. In order to stay ahead of the game, Leica seriously needs to get those lenses out the door before Apple’s $2000 phone eats their lunch too.

 

[lencap]

I reached a similar conclusion, but it was jarring to say the least.  I've began shooting film, both 35 and Hasselblad medium format, decades ago.  I even developed my Tri-X negatives.  There is a certain nostalgia attached to those memories, which I don't want to give up.  Later I moved to Leica and enjoyed the unique Rangefinder experience of the M cameras, starting with M7 and M-A film versions, moving into M9 and Q, and more recently the SL.  The digital cameras are uncomfortable, not in the physical sense, but in the "am I still a photographer?" sense.  Was the camera taking pictures and I was the trigger man, or was I still the photographer? 

I wound up taking several photography courses to find out.  Both in person and via some excellent on line tutorials and paid classes.  That helped me better understand how to use the new technology of digital sensors in a proactive manner.  From that I grew uncomfortable yet again with a very steep PhotoShop/Processing learning curve, which I admit I've still not mastered despite hundreds of hours of trying.

Just recently I was wondering if my Leica Q Titanium 116, and SL 601 with the 24-90 zoom and Sigma 50mm F/1.4 ART lens combo was working as well as I hoped.  I've posted recently about my frustration with the Q's 28mm focal length, and my inability/lack of skill, to compose acceptable portraits, which is a large part of my shooting subject matter.  I decided to sell the Q and get something better matched to the shooting I was doing.

To my utter surprise, which I've written about in another thread, the solution came this week in the form of an iPhone 14 PRO.  Without repeating my other comments the simple fact was that the iPhone was very impressive during my multi-hour test drive at the Apple store with an Apple Video/Photography expert.  The iPhone is also always with me, weighs less than half a pound, provides both still and video solutions, connects to the iCloud to store my larger files, and integrates with my Apple devices easily.  The only things left to explore is how easily/well the iPhone RAW files can be downloaded and processed.  Third party apps, like Halide, give me manual control of all the iPhone photography functions, and make things similar to a "real" camera.

What is lost in this is the experience feeling.  No longer do I have a camera, I have a "device".  No longer do I have full control of all the parts of the photography creative process.  But truth be told, those things were lost far before the iPhone 14.  Digital sensors changed everything, as did "developing" my own images in PhotoShop, and no longer needing the skill necessary to dodge and burn negatives to get the effects I wanted.

So, maybe to me the state of photography today is "The king is dead, long live the king".  My nostalgia filled past is just that, the past.  It's dead.  Things will never be like they were then, and I can either accept it or not.  I chose to accept it.  Similarly, the pace of change in digital photography is more akin to Moore's Law describing the rapid increase in power of computer chips.  The change now is that the law also seems to apply to software processing of images with little/no user effort, like the iPhone.  Again, I can either accept it or not, but I can't change reality.  

Until recently the lines between medium format, 35mm and cropped sensors were pretty clear.  No longer.  And as much as I'll miss my Q, the tools available today have the potential to be the most effective photographic instruments of all time.  Not because they are better than what came before them, but because almost anyone can carry a highly competent photographic tool with them at all times, getting pictures they never would have otherwise.  And then these images can be saved, edited and distributed with ease.  

And just to confirm that, at least to me, I'm even more surprised than in addition to selling my Q, I'm also letting go of the SL and lenses.  Yes, I'll miss them, more for tactile and enjoyment reasons, but the sad truth is that carrying a 5 pound camera/lens, along with assorted gear all the time isn't practical.  I wind up leaving the rig at home because it's "too heavy" or "too much trouble" to lug around, and the result is I miss the shot that I bought the camera for in the first place.  I've amassed hundreds of landscape photos over the years, and enjoyed creating them, but how many more do I need to create?  My main subject is people, and I want to capture them in spontaneous situations, with a high degree of acceptable capture with minimal fuss.  That seems to describe the standard use case of the iPhone.  I take if out of my pocket, fiddle for a few seconds and I'm good to go, capturing images I wouldn't have captured with the SL or the Q.  

I think we're reached a turning point, and the questions about what comes next are going to be front and center for every camera manufacturer and photographer.  Leica will always survive, as will most others, but the experience of photography and the tools used to create images/video will evolve in many different ways.  What that means for profits/products and the business of photography is yet to be determined.  Do I have to invest nearly $18K for a SL/lens and Q combo when an iPhone captures much the same image (albeit in a very different manner) for less than the sales tax of my photography gear?

And that's the saddest part of my new reality, the king is indeed dead.  As Darwin put it: "It's not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent.  It is the one that is most adaptable to change."  

I didn't mean for this post to sound like a eulogy, but after 60 years of enjoying photography I hardly recognize the hobby that has captured my head and heart for all those years. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by lencap

[OR120]

Interesting point of view. I started in the 70's making money with my cameras. It was my profession for almost 40 years. I very much enjoy my iPhone. It has its place in my daily life. But for my photography I now take out one body and one lens for my daily jaunts. The iPhone doesn't really come into play. I enjoy my Leica's just as I enjoy my vinyl record collection. Yes there are other ways of taking a photo - but I don't get the joy of the experience. Yes there are other ways of listening to music - I just enjoy the vinyl much, much more.

Edited October 14, 2022 by OR120
sp

[lencap]

OR120 -

Funny that you mention vinyl - audio is my other hobby, and has been for 50 years.  Sadly, many years ago I sold my vinyl collection.  I enjoyed it, but it had grown to thousands of records, taking up lots of room.  I also found that I wasn't playing the records as often as I had been.  It was far easier to subscribe to Tidal, and more recently Lossless Apple Music, streaming lots of "old favorites" as well as newer music not available on vinyl.

It's far easier to stream HD audio into a Chord desktop DAC feeding into my Burson headphone amp and balanced headphones, than to maintain my vinyl library.  The selection is more varied as well, just a click away.

Still, I enjoy listening even more on my Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers fed through my Ayre electronics with the same lossless HD audio streams and HD FM broadcasts.  We have an excellent FM classical station available - "The Classical Station", 89.7 FM - they stream as well.  The sad truth is that as I've aged my eyesight, hand/eye coordination and lots of other things don't work as well as they once did.  Bending down to lower the tonearm onto a groove in a darkened room had become hilarious to watch.  That's why I moved away from the M cameras - I couldn't capture critical focus with Summilux lenses any longer.  Focusing on the subject's eye was a lot easier without cataracts.  That was the driving force moving me into digital - I could see the subject better with an EVF.  Same thing with vinyl - cleaning/storing vinyl became a chore.  Add to that the high quality portable DACs that are now available, and taking HD audio on a laptop with a DragonFly DAC makes listening easy nearly anywhere. 

Gosh, I really am OLD.....

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by lencap

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[OR120]

lencap - you mention two words that are forbidden - age and OLD - I refuse to face reality

[Farrell Gallery]

Oh dear.