M10r "stutters"

[Harpomatic]

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Hi everyone, 

I just got my new M10r and am testing it.

It seems that no matter what I do I can't hit the 10 shot buffer at all, at 7 it stops shooting and then goes again with one-two shots at a time. Continuous high speed mode.

In single shot I hit2-3 shots before it slows down.

Also, in both continuous and single shot, between the first and second shot there is an hesitation.

Cards used are Sony M SDXC II 64GB (R:277, W:150 MB/s), Lexar SDXC II 256GB 1667x, 250MB/s Read speed, Sandisk Extreme Pro64GB SDXC I 95MB/s. No difference at all in behaviour with the different cards, just taking a couple of seconds longer to empty the buffer with the Sandisk (obviously).

Both Sony and Sandisk were used on my M-P 240 with no issues, the camera never hesitated at all and kept shooting smoothly for the max 5-6 shots I would fire in single shot mode. Hardly ever used continuous, but I tested it here on the M10r because of this hesitation I noticed.

I don't know if this has been discussed here already, I never seem to find anything through the forum search page - I usually go on google and find the answers here anyway, but I can't find anything about this.

Anybody has a similar experience?

 

Thanks!

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[Guest]

DNG, JPG, or both?

If DNG, don’t forget these are big files being written.

Edited September 22, 2022 by OThomas
Speeling 😏

[Harpomatic]

6 minutes ago, OThomas said:

DNG, JPG, or both?

If DNG, don’t forget these are big files being written.

DNG only. I understand they are, but it should be a 10 frames buffer. Now, I don't expect miracles, but the bare minimum stated on the specs: yes. 

And especially I expect no hesitation to shoot, especially the first 4-5 frames.

Thanks for the reply!

[Guest]

True. Is it brand new? Maybe a defect in the buffer/SD card output.

I’ve not experienced any of the issues you’ve mentioned, but I rarely use high speed continuous shooting.

Edited September 22, 2022 by OThomas

[thomasstellwag]

its the same with my recently bought 10R, never noticed that with my normal M10.....enjoy slow photography and inhale every pixel.

Now I understand why some people claim, the cam is getting very hot, the processor then is at its limits. 

It is at least better than the Sony Mavica, where you had to change the 3.5" disk after some pics 😛

[Harpomatic]

9 minutes ago, OThomas said:

True. Is it brand new? Maybe a defect in the buffer/SD card output.

I’ve not experienced any of the issues you’ve mentioned, but I rarely use high speed continuous shooting.

Thanks for replying!

The issue is the same with single shot, it hesitates on the second shot and it just lags horrendously if I try to fire 3 to 5 frames

[Guest]

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Just now, thomasstellwag said:

enjoy slow photography and inhale every pixel.

My philosophy also and the reason I bought my M10R

[Guest]

@Harpomatic sorry forgot you mentioned it happened in single shot also.

Edited September 22, 2022 by OThomas

[Harpomatic]

3 minutes ago, thomasstellwag said:

its the same with my recently bought 10R, never noticed that with my normal M10.....enjoy slow photography and inhale every pixel.

Now I understand why some people claim, the cam is getting very hot, the processor then is at its limits. 

It is at least better than the Sony Mavica, where you had to change the 3.5" disk after some pics 😛

Jeez, for real?

Not about your reply, about this being normal: how is it a functional camera? I can't believe this is a finished product on the market if this is normal: shooting 2-3 frames in quick succession as single shot should be absolutely normal and for a modern camera!

If this is normal I can't use this camera professionally!

What a disappointment. 

Thanks anyway!

[Guest]

@Harpomatic to be honest I don’t think the M system has that ethos. Most M users aren't run ‘n’ gun shooters. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by OThomas
Duff fingers

[M Street Photographer]

I just checked it with my M 10 R, SD card is Pro Grade 128 GB, 300, 250 MB/s, indoor space (same exposure) series high: ISO 100, 1/125, f 4 without LV, AWB, center weighted Measurement, DNG+Jpeg.
She takes 7 photos in a row, very quickly, then a short break, then 3 more photos follow, a short break and then 3 more photos.
Please keep in mind that the manufacturer's information is given without any automation and in a laboratory environment.
If necessary, reset the camera to factory settings to test and repeat the high series.

I almost never use the series, but when I do, I'm happy.

Postscript: Jpeg without settings (no sharpening, no contrast, no color)

Edited September 22, 2022 by M Street Photographer

[thomasstellwag]

10 minutes ago, OThomas said:

@Harpomatic sorry forgot you mentioned it happened in single shot also.

in my case in a single shot modus, only RAW shooting after 4-6 pictures in short sequence, I have to wait one or two seconds, tested like the TO with several SD cards.

 

 

 

[Harpomatic]

1 minute ago, OThomas said:

@Harpomatic to be honest I don’t think the M system has that ethos. Most M users aren't run ‘n’ gun shooters. 

This isn't run'n'gun, this is ensuring you get the shot!

I didn't say continuous shooting at 20fps. When you shoot professionally you have to deliver the shot: "the camera slowed down" is not an excuse for missing the moment.

The M-P 240 never had an issue with that, I never missed shots because of the camera. If I missed it was my fault.

With this camera, if this is how it runs, I will miss shots, often. Almost there with the moment doesn't cut it.

Let's not start defending Leica because we love it. If the camera is not able to shoot readily 3 shots in a row it is not a finished product.

I really hope this is a defective camera and I will be proved wrong about this, otherwise I'll have to return it and look for an M10-p.

 

Thanks for contributing 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Harpomatic said:

This isn't run'n'gun, this is ensuring you get the shot!

I see your point.

Quote

Let's not start defending Leica because we love it

That’s one thing I wouldn’t do   I’m not a fan boy, it’s just a camera, 

Quote

 

I'll have to return it and look for an M10-p.

Have you looked at the M11, one of the othe Leicas?

Edited September 22, 2022 by OThomas

[M Street Photographer]

Switch off all automatics, only use Jpeg, no RAW, for checking and take your freshly formatted, fastest card.
Please see if such then increases the speed to my level.

Please let us know when you have completed the test according to my posts #11 and #15.

Edited September 22, 2022 by M Street Photographer

[elmars]

I've never counted how many frames it takes in continuous mode before the buffer is full. But what you hear in the movie doesn't seem unusual to me. Does the red LED blink when the camera slows down? That's the sign that it still needs time to save.

The M10-R has the M10 as its technical basis, so it is designed to process 24 MP. The larger volume of data per image on the M10-R overtaxes the processor and the buffer faster.

The M11 can do better, especially at resolutions of 36 MP and 18 MP.

 

[Harpomatic]

9 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

I just checked it with my M 10 R, SD card is Pro Grade 128 GB, 300, 250 MB/s, indoor space (same exposure) series high: ISO 100, 1/125, f 4 without LV, AWB, center weighted Measurement, DNG+Jpeg.
She takes 7 photos in a row, very quickly, then a short break, then 3 more photos follow, a short break and then 3 more photos.
Please keep in mind that the manufacturer's information is given without any automation and in a laboratory environment.
If necessary, reset the camera to factory settings to test and repeat the high series.

I almost never use the series, but when I do, I'm happy.

Postscript: Jpeg without settings (no sharpening, no contrast, no color

Thanks for checking!

I reset the camera, reformatted the cards.

No change.

What really bugs me is the hesitation between shots: continuous is not really a problem for me, I never used it on an M, it was just to test it when I realised how slow it was in single shot mode. It is surprising about the hesitation between first and second shot.

What really is a problem is the shot to shot speed in single shot mode: I shoot street and travel mostly with the M, teaching it in UK and abroad. I'm no novice, and not new to the Leica M system (see my website www.47-degree.com), I know what I'm doing and know my cameras, very well.

The Leica M10 is new to me, so I want to ascertain that it is suitable for my use. As this copy is, it isn't.

I chose the M10r for the highlight retention mostly, I just like having the latitude. But I think I'll have to look at the M10p probably.

You shoot street as your name suggests: do you never fire the shutter twice or three times very quickly when. a moment is developing? 

[Harpomatic]

11 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

Switch off all automatics, only use Jpeg, no RAW, for checking and take your freshly formatted, fastest card.
Please see if such then increases the speed to my level.

Please let us know when you have completed the test according to my posts #11 and #15.

Done, no difference:

I have to wait for the camera. It's not about wanting to shoot an enormous amount of frames, one after the other.

It's about shot to shot speed in single shot mode, and being able to follow a moment: say, wedding recessional with confetti. I need to fire off 4 to 8 frames quickly while moving with the couple. Ain't happening with this camera, was happening with the M-P 240

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Harpomatic]

17 minutes ago, OThomas said:

Have you looked at the M11, one of the othe Leicas?

I'd love it but I can't afford it for the business as it is.

The M10r I got used.

Would love the M11!

[M Street Photographer]

When I shoot street, that's how I do it too, multiple shots in single mode.
I checked it again under my test conditions.
  I've now taken 10 shots and found no lag. If I press the shutter button immediately, one after the other in single mode, it goes 10 times without a break.

A second test under the same conditions, the camera took 17 shots (RAW and Jpeg), then stopped to read out the buffer.
I think that's normal.
My last idea would be your SD card, please test with a 300MB Prograde or Sony card.