Is Leica upping their game in the world of film?

[grahamc]

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1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

We have discussed this very newsletter they sent out and analog website page in another topic already twice, if I remember correctly.

Relax Al , we know you saw it first 😂

[Sunyforreal]

9 hours ago, colint544 said:

I was on a bus in Edinburgh back in July, during the festival. It was packed with tourists. Just in my immediate vicinity, I counted two Canon AE-1s, and a Canon AV-1. Got off the bus at at the Mound, and a guy walked past with a Leica M5 in his hand.

In my own city of Glasgow, I go down Byres Road, past young men and women with chrome-topped SLRs from the 1970's around their necks, and into Snappy Snaps to get my occasional roll of Portra 400 developed. I say 'into', but as often as not I have to join a queue on the street just to get into the shop. There are always people in the queue handing in, or collecting, film. The guy in the back, who operates the Noritsu machine, is barely visible through all the strips of 120 and 35mm film hanging up around him. The shop rarely has Portra 160 and 400. It comes in, and sells out almost immediately.

Something is happening. It doesn't feel like a blip any more. Prices of film cameras have gone crazy. Plastic point-and-shoots from the 1990's that should really sell for £20 or £30 are going for £400+. Film is back. Leica seem in a good position to capitalise on that. Even the above announcement stirs the pot of enthusiasm for film.

Incidentally, the film camera bargain of the moment looks like the Nikon F2. That thing is built and designed at least as well as any Leica M, and you can currently get one for less than the price of a plastic Olympus MJU2 point and shoot. 

I just went out shooting around Atlanta today. Just in the two different locations I went to, I had three people come up to me asking about film cameras, what I was shooting, how interested they were in it, one guy talk to me about his Bronica, saw another guy loading film into his Nikon F3 and made short conversation with him, and had another girl ask if I was shooting 120 film (had my Mamiya 7 II around my neck) and that she left her film camera at home but shoots film too. You’re onto something, film is past just being a trend, and I’m so glad to see it.

 

I don’t know everyone else’s reasons but I’ve been into photography for about two years now so not a very long time compared to other members on here. I started because I got talked into buying an old P&S (for way more than it was worth, looking back) and loved it so much I dived headfirst. I bought a Fuji XT-4 a months after to see if I felt the same way and it did NOT do it for me. Shot some photos with it for a car I was auctioning off and sold it afterwards. I’ve really toiled with the idea of getting an M10 or M10-R, but I think back to how I felt after letting that Fuji go. iPhones have gotten so good that in my head, if I wanted to shoot digital for anything other than “work”, I’d just use my iPhone. For anything personal that I really care about, I’m going to shoot it on film. It’s beautiful, I love the process, and it has plenty enough resolution for me. I’d be happy shooting film for the rest of my life. 
 

I’m glad to see other people out there shooting these old cameras and even though a remake of the M6 isn’t exactlyyy what I’d want from Leica in a new film camera, I’m just happy to see them willing to invest the R&D to bring a new film camera to us and to continue to make new film cameras. I hope eventually other manufacturers (looking at you Nikon!) follow suit.

[kivis]

Here we go:

https://leicarumors.com/2022/09/16/breaking-leica-will-bring-back-to-life-the-m6-film-camera.aspx/

[shirubadanieru]

Leica could’ve remade the M3 instead of the M6 but oh well..M6 for some reason is the hype machine on instagram, even though it’s a worse camera than all other M cameras, including the currently available MP and MA. At least if they make it significantly cheaper than the MP/MA and solve the original viewfinder flare, plus remove that ugly red dot, it should be a great entry into the Leica lineup. Wonder how they will differentiate it from the MP/MA though to justify someone picking it over them. Guess we’ll find out in a month’s time

[Huss]

55 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

… plus remove that ugly red dot…

I like the red dot, in fact I have modified my camera so more people notice it.

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[colint544]

12 hours ago, andrew01 said:

F2’s are indeed awesome, especially after a fresh service from Sover Wong (2 year waiting list).  Not exactly a bargain at around £800 after servicing, but a lot cheaper than an M6!

I think the bargains of the Nikon range are the Nikkormats.  These have the superb build quality very close to F2 league and are arguably better balanced (F2 is a bit top heavy with the metering prisms).  The much hyped FM2 is a big drop down in build quality.

For a plastic point and shoot, the best bargain is actually an SLR.  The Canon EOS cameras from the end of the film era can be had for £20-£40.  Add a 40mm pancake lens and you have a superb point and shoot with lightning fast AF and 35 zone evaluative metering.

 

 

Agree with all of that, and I had forgotten about the great value end-of-the-era film cameras represent. I've had no experience of the Nikkormats, but I do know they are very well regarded, and far better built than they likely needed to be. I have to confess a weakness for the F2. I had one back in the late nineties, an F2AS, and it certainly was a brick of a camera. I ended up trading it in for my first Leica - an M6.

But earlier this year I bought an F2 again, a chrome plain-prism one. It handles better than the metered variant, and it's just the most exquisite, hand-built thing. The way the latch on the baseplate operates is a model of engineering precision. I doubt it would be possible to make such a camera today without it costing many thousands of pounds. I bought mine for £180, and it came with a six month warranty. The F2 today seems very much in the shadow of the F3, and almost completely overlooked.

I wonder if Nikon would be brave enough to re-launch one of their iconic rangefinder cameras, and get back in the film game. I think it would do their brand no end of good, and they would surely sell every one they could make.

Edited September 18, 2022 by colint544

[andrew01]

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5 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Leica could’ve remade the M3 instead of the M6 but oh well..M6 for some reason is the hype machine on instagram, even though it’s a worse camera than all other M cameras, including the currently available MP and MA. At least if they make it significantly cheaper than the MP/MA and solve the original viewfinder flare, plus remove that ugly red dot, it should be a great entry into the Leica lineup. Wonder how they will differentiate it from the MP/MA though to justify someone picking it over them. Guess we’ll find out in a month’s time

I don’t believe for a minute it will be significantly cheaper than the MP.  My guess is that it will be exactly the same price.  I think they will use the upgraded rangefinder and the same materials for construction.  Essentially the camera will be identical to the MP, with the exception of cosmetic changes to the film advance lever and rewind mechanism, and different branding on the front.

I like the M6 styling, including the small red dot.  Hopefully the new model will have parts that are backwardly compatible with the old model which is good for long term serviceability.

Hopefully the revival of classic film bodies continues.  It would be great to see the R6.2 brought back to life.

[LocalHero1953]

25 minutes ago, andrew01 said:

Hopefully the new model will have parts that are backwardly compatible with the old model which is good for long term serviceability.

I believe Leica has talked before about making a new circuit board to retrofit to those M6 TTLs that have had terminal circuit failures. This could be a double product launch: the new circuit board, plus a new M6 TTL look-alike that uses it.

[atournas]

I wonder if Leica is going to revive the R line as well. Sounds silly, I know, but film newcomers would perhaps feel more comfortable with a SLR type. On the other hand, walking down the street with a Leica M hanging around one's neck is more "pro".

I recently got rid of my 26-year old R7 (and two R lenses). The camera had started showing its age, with occasional electronics failure. I keep my MP, of course, (and two M lenses).

Edited September 18, 2022 by atournas

[Stuart Richardson]

As someone who ran/runs a printing service and lab, I have always been a bit annoyed by the "imperfection" angle. I understand that what some people like about film (especially 35mm) is its grain and different color palette, but to me, that is not imperfection any more than paint is imperfection in painting. It is simply the technology. For me, dust and scratches are poorly edited colors are just sloppiness, and I have worked hard in my lab to eliminate them, so when clients ask for it, it used to rub me the wrong way, since I spent so much time trying to make everything perfect. That said, I have moved past it, and in the rare instances where it helps the aesthetics, I am fine with it. What people are emulating is not film, but vernacular photography. The aesthetics of their grandmother's 110 camera and the cheap processing and prints, and the faded colors of vintage prints. Film photography itself has always been a bigger tent...with most of the best photographers being able technicians as well. People like Ansel Adams of course, but also people like Stephen Shore, Robert Adams, Berenice Abbott, Germaine Krull, Mary Ellen Mark, Martine Franck and so on. Even photographers in the Provoke movement which pushed film to the limit were not sloppy or imperfect. 

So long story short, I am happy to see Leica promoting film, but I do find it every so slightly cringe-worthy to see "the beauty of imperfection" as a title. Other than the few dust spots (which I still have to say, I don't love...) on Joe Greer's photos, I don't see much "imperfection" in them either. They are composed, clear photos with a vintage aesthetic.

[andrew01]

3 hours ago, atournas said:

I wonder if Leica is going to revive the R line as well. Sounds silly, I know, but film newcomers would perhaps feel more comfortable with a SLR type. On the other hand, walking down the street with a Leica M hanging around one's neck is more "pro".

I recently got rid of my 26-year old R7 (and two R lenses). The camera had started showing its age, with occasional electronics failure. I keep my MP, of course, (and two M lenses).

Thats a shame about the R7, I thought that was one of the more reliable models and was thinking of picking one up.  I have an R6.2 which I love.  It is the closest thing to an SLR version of the M6. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by andrew01

[Huss]

F2 is a superb match for the M3.  I had the original F, and that is much clunkier/awkward (esp shutter button placement).

F2 is built to an amazing quality level and it is shocking how cheap they are right now.  The crappy (it is crappy - in its day it was the cheapest entry level Pentax) K1000 often goes for more!  Imagine that, the bottom of the rung 35mm slr is now worth more than the top of the heap pro 35mm slr!

Anyway, take advantage of that while you can!

 

 

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[atournas]

3 hours ago, andrew01 said:

Thats a shame about the R7, I thought that was one of the more reliable models and was thinking of picking one up.  I have an R6.2 which I love.  It is the closest thing to an SLR version of the M6. 

I suggest you stick with your R6.2. You can trace back some discussion in this forum about the electronics of the R series, R3 to R7, with the exception of course of the R6 and R6.2. (I think R8 and R9 have different electronic boards.) They tend to fail with time.

Which is really pity, for the R lenses are among the very best, and I strongly believe it, based on my experience. Enjoy your shootings!

[logan2z]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

F2 is a superb match for the M3.  I had the original F, and that is much clunkier/awkward (esp shutter button placement).

F2 is built to an amazing quality level and it is shocking how cheap they are right now.  The crappy (it is crappy - in its day it was the cheapest entry level Pentax) K1000 often goes for more!  Imagine that, the bottom of the rung 35mm slr is now worth more than the top of the heap pro 35mm slr!

Anyway, take advantage of that while you can!

 

 

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I keep toying with picking up an F2 but I already have too many cameras.  Wait, did I just say that with a straight face?

[colint544]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

F2 is a superb match for the M3.  I had the original F, and that is much clunkier/awkward (esp shutter button placement).

F2 is built to an amazing quality level and it is shocking how cheap they are right now.  The crappy (it is crappy - in its day it was the cheapest entry level Pentax) K1000 often goes for more!  Imagine that, the bottom of the rung 35mm slr is now worth more than the top of the heap pro 35mm slr!

Anyway, take advantage of that while you can!

 

 

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Two beauties. They don't make them like that any more!

[Huss]

9 minutes ago, logan2z said:

I keep toying with picking up an F2 but I already have too many cameras.  Wait, did I just say that with a straight face?

I sold off all my Pentax 35mm slrs and lenses including an LX.  Sold off all my Minolta Slrs apart from the XK.  Sold off a bunch of my Nikon slrs -F4, Nikkormats, Fe2, Fm, Fm2n, F100, F80, F75 - left w f2 , f2as and F6.  Also Leica r9 after selling off bunch of Leica Slrs.  Still too much gear.

But the F2 seems to be a keeper as it will last forever.

[logan2z]

10 minutes ago, Huss said:

I sold off all my Pentax 35mm slrs and lenses including an LX.  Sold off all my Minolta Slrs apart from the XK.  Sold off a bunch of my Nikon slrs -F4, Nikkormats, Fe2, Fm, Fm2n, F100, F80, F75 - left w f2 , f2as and F6.  Also Leica r9 after selling off bunch of Leica Slrs.  Still too much gear.

But the F2 seems to be a keeper as it will last forever.

I've thought about consolidating as well, but my FM and FT3 are nearly mint and I know I'd regret selling them after the fact.  I'm also on a Pentax kick at the moment and bought a couple of KXs that I'm enjoying.  The fact is, these cameras and lenses are so inexpensive to buy now - relative to Leica prices - that they feel almost free in comparison   Oh, I also recently picked up an M2 that was fully overhauled in Wetzlar.  That one didn't feel free...

[Huss]

7 minutes ago, logan2z said:

I've thought about consolidating as well, but my FM and FT3 are nearly mint and I know I'd regret selling them after the fact.  I'm also on a Pentax kick at the moment and bought a couple of KXs that I'm enjoying.  The fact is, these cameras and lenses are so inexpensive to buy now - relative to Leica prices - that they feel almost free in comparison   Oh, I also recently picked up an M2 that was fully overhauled in Wetzlar.  That one didn't feel free...

I really wanted a KX in black but could not find one that wasnt thrashed.  Weird thing is all the ones I saw -silver or black- had a defective aperture read out window.  I had a black K2 which was my favourite Pentax.  And yeah while all of this stuff felt ‘free’ compared to Leicas, it still was too much stuff lying around unused.  So it wasnt a question of money, but of physical reduction!

[logan2z]

7 minutes ago, Huss said:

I really wanted a KX in black but could not find one that wasnt thrashed.  Weird thing is all the ones I saw -silver or black- had a defective aperture read out window.  I had a black K2 which was my favourite Pentax.  And yeah while all of this stuff felt ‘free’ compared to Leicas, it still was too much stuff lying around unused.  So it wasnt a question of money, but of physical reduction!

My first KX was a silver one because I couldn't find a decent black one.  But I recently came upon a nice black one with the split-image viewfinder which is apparently relatively rare and I prefer it.  Like you, though, I am starting to accumulate a lot of 'stuff' that isn't getting used all that often so I may sell some of it at some point to reclaim some physical space.

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Hallo,

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[kivis]

Here we go:

https://leicarumors.com/2022/09/16/breaking-leica-will-bring-back-to-life-the-m6-film-camera.aspx/