New Leica M6 Film Camera

[jonoslack]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

53 minutes ago, logan2z said:

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I don't have a dog in the fight since I own an M-A rather than an MP and am not a buyer for the new M6.  But if the new M6 had a completely re-designed/modern circuit board that is considered more 'future proof', I would think that Leica would have made a big deal about that in their marketing materials for the camera.  The fact that they said nothing definitive about it and Jono doesn't seem to really know - despite the fact that he's a Leica insider who was given a camera for test ahead of the launch - then logic tells me that there is nothing really new there.  I just don't see why Leica would miss the opportunity to tout what many would consider the one big advantage of a new camera with an internal meter.  I'm more than happy to be wrong, however.  If the meter in the new M6 is a brand new design, using a more reliable supply chain that guarantees replacement parts for the foreseeable future, then that's great.

I didn't test one actually - but I'm convinced by what I've heard from Leica - and it isn't really the sort of thing that they tout, probably because it would irritate people who had just bought an MP (or an M-A, because it's clearly mechanical parts too). 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[IkarusJohn]

6 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There 

Well, I'm not sure that the MP has a limited life span, although there are issues with parts as I understand it.

You won't see anything conclusive to say that the "M6 isn't just an MP with a different paint job rewind lever and film advance". But as I understand it after talking with Leica staff it  seems like it is "pretty much an entirely new body" - with parts supplied from a new supply change. 

best

Then the necessity for those new parts becomes an issue.  If the implications of your informatoin are followed through, then Leica needs to act reasonably quickly to confirm that retro-compatible upgrades are being made to the MP & M-A.  Otherwise the rumour mill and speculation the like of here will kill MP & M-A sales.

Edit - we cross posted.  Is it possible tha the upgrades are to the original M6 design, rather than anything to do with the MP & M-A?

Edited October 22, 2022 by IkarusJohn

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, JohnFM said:

Thanks -- am I right in assuming that this matte coating will be much more tough and durable than the black paint of the MP?

As an aside, I love the MP and have no problem with the beautiful brass showing through after time/use/wear.  Was just curious about the 'paint' on the new M6.

It will be much more tough and durable . . . . brassing will be a long winded affair!

[logan2z]

13 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

I didn't test one actually - but I'm convinced by what I've heard from Leica - and it isn't really the sort of thing that they tout, probably because it would irritate people who had just bought an MP (or an M-A, because it's clearly mechanical parts too). 

Unfortunately the innuendo and lack of transparency is already having that effect, If posts on this forum are any indication. 

[jonoslack]

12 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Then the necessity for those new parts becomes an issue.  If the implications of your informatoin are followed through, then Leica needs to act reasonably quickly to confirm that retro-compatible upgrades are being made to the MP & M-A.  Otherwise the rumour mill and speculation the like of here will kill MP & M-A sales.

Edit - we cross posted.  Is it possible tha the upgrades are to the original M6 design, rather than anything to do with the MP & M-A?

Hi There

Yes - it certainly is possible - It sounded to me like they have taken the opportunity to make a new camera which takes advantage of the improved tolerances that they can manage nowdays - certainly not just a variant on the MP.

This is just conjecture, but it seems to me that they could quietly apply this to the MP and MA without necessarily shouting about it. 

best

[jonoslack]

2 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Unfortunately the innuendo and lack of transparency is already having that effect, If posts on this forum are any indication. 

Well, I rather sympathise with them - they've clearly said that they have produced the new M6 by making it as good as they can. 

If I was going to decide whether to buy an MP or an M6 right now I'd buy the M6 on the basis of what I've heard.

 

[IkarusJohn]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

8 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Hi There

Yes - it certainly is possible - It sounded to me like they have taken the opportunity to make a new camera which takes advantage of the improved tolerances that they can manage nowdays - certainly not just a variant on the MP.

This is just conjecture, but it seems to me that they could quietly apply this to the MP and MA without necessarily shouting about it. 

best

They might need to. 

[mujk]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

I am still willing to have DAG take apart my new M6 when it comes in to show it is the exact same camera as the MP.  If people are willing to chip in for it. $500 should cover it and I’ll pay for anything over that.  We could open an escrow account.

The only thing I can see being different is the meter board, but none of the mechanicals.  Because claiming the original suppliers are no longer available makes no sense seeing they are still building the MP and M-A.  And if Leica now all of a sudden has the ability to make parts for the M6, why couldn’t they make them for the MP?
It’s not like the new M6 has expanded functionality.  Same rf and vf.  Same shutter with same shutter speed range.  But now all new bits?  I’m calling this as marketing fluff.

Fully agree. I don't see why Leica would radically redesign a mechanical part or assembly only because they need to change the supplier unless there were some really big incentive to do so, like unavailability of a crucial raw material or excessive cost. Even in that case they would probably just do a minor redesign so that the part/assembly would still be compatible with the rest of the mechanism, meaning that the new one could probably be used as a spare for MPs as well.

The situation is different for the electronics, i.e. the metering circuitry, where the unavailability of a certain chip could cause a major redesign. But even in that case I guess it would be possible to design new circuit boards that would fit into the same space as the previous ones and have the same external connections (light meter sensor, ISO dial position indicator, speed dial position indicator, display LEDs, power switch and battery compartment). Meaning that they could be used to replace the original ones in existing MPs. 

But the new parts would not necessarily be suitable as spares for old M6s and M6TTLs, although it would be really great if they did.

[colonel]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:11 AM, Jimmyp82 said:

Surely the MP will be repairable by SOMEONE for many years yet? 

It'll be repairable as long as the new M6 is !!!

Shooting with my MP a few days ago. I love it more than the M6 design. It is so beautiful close up but stealthy at a distance

However, I applaud Leica issuing this lovely M6. the more film the merrier !!

[thedirektor]

On 10/21/2022 at 9:23 AM, MarkP said:

I love my M7 ❤️

Me Too !!!

[colint544]

Does anyone know if the new M6 still has the plastic frame counter gears fitted to the MP? 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

...it isn't really the sort of thing that they tout, probably because it would irritate people who had just bought an MP (or an M-A, because it's clearly mechanical parts too). 

Re: Mechanical parts.  According to this interview with Andrea Pacella (Leica Director of Global Marketing):

"...but some of the machines are still needed and we have them but we have them even because we need to service our cameras and we still have a department in Wetzlar where we have machines to create parts if they are no longer existing.  That's fantastic and this is the beauty of mechanical cameras because in a mechanical camera you can always find a way to recreate the small piece that's broken.  But with a circuit when it's gone it's gone".

That led me to believe that mechanical cameras like the M-A would be repairable for the foreseeable future - especially since the M-A was only released about 8 years ago.  FWIW, I just had an M2 completely overhauled in Wetzlar and there was no issue with parts availability - and this for a 60+ year old camera.  I'd be very surprised if Leica didn't have mechanical parts available to service the M-A and MP for a very long time.

Edited October 22, 2022 by logan2z

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

If I was going to decide whether to buy an MP or an M6 right now I'd buy the M6 on the basis of what I've heard.

You may have just single-handedly killed off MP sales - at least where those who read this forum are concerned 

Edited October 22, 2022 by logan2z

[JohnFM]

^ Are new MPs even available at this point?

[jonoslack]

11 minutes ago, logan2z said:

You may have just single-handedly killed off MP sales - at least where those who read this forum are concerned 

Well, I've never suggested that Leica can't service MP and MA cameras (of course they can)

But the M6 seems to me to be a 'start from scratch' rethink. The impression I get is that they have trouble making enough MA and MP cameras, but they should be able to make enough M6 . . . . 

[jonoslack]

1 minute ago, JohnFM said:

^ Are new MPs even available at this point?

Absolutely (although hard to find)

 

[jonoslack]

17 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Re: Mechanical parts.  According to this interview with Andrea Pacella (Leica Director of Global Marketing):

"...but some of the machines are still needed and we have them but we have them even because we need to service our cameras and we still have a department in Wetzlar where we have machines to create parts if they are no longer existing.  That's fantastic and this is the beauty of mechanical cameras because in a mechanical camera you can always find a way to recreate the small piece that's broken.  But with a circuit when it's gone it's gone".

That led me to believe that mechanical cameras like the M-A would be repairable for the foreseeable future - especially since the M-A was only released about 8 years ago.  FWIW, I just had an M2 completely overhauled in Wetzlar and there was no issue with parts availability - and this for a 60+ year old camera.  I'd be very surprised if Leica didn't have mechanical parts available to service the M-A and MP for a very long time.

Hi There

I've been to that department in Wetzlar - it's amazing, and as you say it means that they will always be able to replace mechanical parts for old cameras, but it might not be cheap!

I hope I haven't implied that they won't be able to repair any cameras (I didn't mean to - and I'm sure they will). But clearly if the parts are in stock and made from modern machinery it's easier than machining them on a one off basis. 

[250swb]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

 

If I was going to decide whether to buy an MP or an M6 right now I'd buy the M6 on the basis of what I've heard.

 

Well you would say that. But it's clear Leica already had a brass top plate with a crank arm option available for the MP (planned and widely promoted if not delivered) in the MP's al la carte programme long before now. So they essentially had a camera on the blocks ready to go that only needed some different engraving to the top plate. All they had to do is wait until the new found demand for film cameras and the prices for second hand M6's reached meltdown and then release it. If they can't deliver enough MP's right now it will be because all the components are going into the 'new' M6, otherwise what is the holdup with the MP if the 'new' M6 has all new components and is not sharing anything?

Edited October 22, 2022 by 250swb

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Huss]

Leica's promotional 'build' video shows the M6 being made just like the MP before it, using the same old machinery they've always used, doing the same things.

Not sure where these new tolerances are coming from, seeing being built using the same machinery...

I actually do NOT want the M6 to made from new parts, as the MP is proven and reliable over the years.  No need to mess with it.  An all new 'M6' opens the possibilities to mechanical issues down the line.

 

I will stand by my offer.  I will be willing to have my new M6 stripped down by DAG to see if it is the same camera mechanically as the MP.  If others are willing to chip in on the cost involved.

 

 

[grahamc]

5 hours ago, Huss said:

I am still willing to have DAG take apart my new M6 when it comes in to show it is the exact same camera as the MP.  If people are willing to chip in for it. $500 should cover it and I’ll pay for anything over that.  We could open an escrow account.

The only thing I can see being different is the meter board, but none of the mechanicals.  Because claiming the original suppliers are no longer available makes no sense seeing they are still building the MP and M-A.  And if Leica now all of a sudden has the ability to make parts for the M6, why couldn’t they make them for the MP?
It’s not like the new M6 has expanded functionality.  Same rf and vf.  Same shutter with same shutter speed range.  But now all new bits?  I’m calling this as marketing fluff.

I’m in on this if you are serious. After almost 70 pages of this thread it’s about time we had something factual to talk about 😂