New Leica M6 Film Camera

[verwackelt]

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Yes incredibly expensive. Overall, prices are rising while incomes and purchasing power is falling.
Meanwhile I can only afford used stuff…

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, verwackelt said:

Me too…
A smaller cheaper camera like the older Leica/Minolta CLE would be tempting. But not just a M6 clone for 5k€…

I don't think we'll see anything cheap from Leica, but perhaps if Cosina haven't thrown away their tooling they might consider the recent popularity of film cameras and reboot the Bessa series. It's only about 7 years since they stopped selling them.

[verwackelt]

Or Zeiss the Ikon…

[lmans]

The M6 to buy or the MP? That is the question...to buy or not to buy.    The differences between an MP and the new M6 are few....more cosmetic. I have to admit the rewind mechanism of the M6 (old or new camera) is easier than the style of the MP (or M3).  Size wise...they seem about equal with exception of 2 mm in girth.

Would I buy? ...either? ....  I saw that a used MP in real good condition is going for a few thousand less than the new one, (even cheaper than a used M6 believe it or not). I currently have a 80's M6 so hard for me to justify either the MP or M6 as I wouldn't be upgrading. If my M6 gave up the ghost, well....it might be another matter then. I would most likely go for the new M6 due to the rewind knob.

I think that Leica could have come up with a smaller version of the M6...much the same size of the Olympus om-1 (old film version), as when I put them side by side, I prefer the OM-1 as it is easier to walk around with.

Are / will young people or newbies purchase the M6? Are they purchasing the MP? I doubt either as the price-tag of over $5000 US is a bit steep. I feel the young wanna-be retro feel crowd will opt for Canon AE-1's and Minolta's as that is what I see many camera stores stocking (Tucson and Philadelphia). A few hundred compared to $5000+ plus the cost of Leica Lens? Egads...... I am just not buying they will buy into that.

Also, as I saw in another forum discussion....are the younger wanna-be film retro crowd really into photography beyond the first go-around of taking shots? Are they returning to shooting film or does their interest wane real quickly after developing the first roll of film ? That is a question I feel needs to be looked at. Is film just a quick fad for the younger crowd? I tend to think so. As I walk the streets of Philadelphia, I have never seen a young person taking shots with film. I see them look and purchase used film cameras but while I never see them on the streets, it tells me that this is a fad for their generation. Just my thoughts. Anyone else on this have an idea? jim

[pedaes]

10 minutes ago, lmans said:

 The differences between an MP and the new M6 are few.

How do you (we) know? The inference is that the M6 has  totally 're-worked' electronics that will not become a problem in the future.

[LocalHero1953]

If I had definitely decided to buy a new MP or a new M6, it would be the M6 without a moment’s thought. Functionally and in-the-hand the same, but one with a shrinking parts bin and so the prospect of limited repairability, and the other with parts and supply chain designed for the future.

[Huss]

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48 minutes ago, lmans said:

The M6 to buy or the MP? That is the question...to buy or not to buy.    The differences between an MP and the new M6 are few....more cosmetic. I have to admit the rewind mechanism of the M6 (old or new camera) is easier than the style of the MP (or M3).  Size wise...they seem about equal with exception of 2 mm in girth.

Would I buy? ...either? ....  I saw that a used MP in real good condition is going for a few thousand less than the new one, (even cheaper than a used M6 believe it or not). I currently have a 80's M6 so hard for me to justify either the MP or M6 as I wouldn't be upgrading. If my M6 gave up the ghost, well....it might be another matter then. I would most likely go for the new M6 due to the rewind knob.

I think that Leica could have come up with a smaller version of the M6...much the same size of the Olympus om-1 (old film version), as when I put them side by side, I prefer the OM-1 as it is easier to walk around with.

Are / will young people or newbies purchase the M6? Are they purchasing the MP? I doubt either as the price-tag of over $5000 US is a bit steep. I feel the young wanna-be retro feel crowd will opt for Canon AE-1's and Minolta's as that is what I see many camera stores stocking (Tucson and Philadelphia). A few hundred compared to $5000+ plus the cost of Leica Lens? Egads...... I am just not buying they will buy into that.

Also, as I saw in another forum discussion....are the younger wanna-be film retro crowd really into photography beyond the first go-around of taking shots? Are they returning to shooting film or does their interest wane real quickly after developing the first roll of film ? That is a question I feel needs to be looked at. Is film just a quick fad for the younger crowd? I tend to think so. As I walk the streets of Philadelphia, I have never seen a young person taking shots with film. I see them look and purchase used film cameras but while I never see them on the streets, it tells me that this is a fad for their generation. Just my thoughts. Anyone else on this have an idea? jim

The cameras are the same size.  Earlier in this thread Adli was kind enough to measure them using calipers, and posted the pics of them being measured.

Leica’s spec sheets are notoriously full of errors.  Part of the quality control experience.  I am not criticizing the camera - I have ordered one - just the typical Leica sloppiness in the other areas.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Huss

[logan2z]

21 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

If I had definitely decided to buy a new MP or a new M6, it would be the M6 without a moment’s thought. Functionally and in-the-hand the same, but one with a shrinking parts bin and so the prospect of limited repairability, and the other with parts and supply chain designed for the future.

Not sure why people are coming to the conclusion that the MP has a limited life span due to a lack of parts availability.  I've still seen nothing that conclusively says the M6 isn't just an MP with a different paint job, rewind lever and film advance.

Edited October 22, 2022 by logan2z

[Huss]

3 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Not sure why people are coming to the conclusion that the MP has a limited life span due to a lack of parts availability.  I've still seen nothing that conclusively says the M6 isn't just an MP with a different paint job, rewind lever and film advance.

I am still willing to have DAG take apart my new M6 when it comes in to show it is the exact same camera as the MP.  If people are willing to chip in for it. $500 should cover it and I’ll pay for anything over that.  We could open an escrow account.

The only thing I can see being different is the meter board, but none of the mechanicals.  Because claiming the original suppliers are no longer available makes no sense seeing they are still building the MP and M-A.  And if Leica now all of a sudden has the ability to make parts for the M6, why couldn’t they make them for the MP?
It’s not like the new M6 has expanded functionality.  Same rf and vf.  Same shutter with same shutter speed range.  But now all new bits?  I’m calling this as marketing fluff.

[madNbad]

26 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Not sure why people are coming to the conclusion that the MP has a limited life span due to a lack of parts availability.  I've still seen nothing that conclusively says the M6 isn't just an MP with a different paint job, rewind lever and film advance.

Some of the changes could be driven by compliance with EU environmental laws. It was mentioned somewhere in the thread the black chrome finish was phased out due to toxicity concerns. There may have been other coatings for smaller parts that were also affected. These changes aren’t obvious which can be confusing.

Why not just apply the changes to the current MP/M-A? The M6 is the hot Leica on the used market, bring out a new one and see how it sells. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by madNbad

[JohnFM]

Is the finish of the new M6 matte black paint over brass?  If so, will the new M6 tend to 'brass' as quickly as an MP?

[madNbad]

4 minutes ago, JohnFM said:

Is the finish of the new M6 matte black paint over brass?  If so, will the new M6 tend to 'brass' as quickly as an MP?

It’s not the traditional black paint but the same matte black coating Leica uses on the M11.

[LocalHero1953]

45 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Not sure why people are coming to the conclusion that the MP has a limited life span due to a lack of parts availability.  I've still seen nothing that conclusively says the M6 isn't just an MP with a different paint job, rewind lever and film advance.

"Conclusively"? No. But the only evidence one way or another points that way. Jono Slack makes the same remarks here (post #10).

Anyone here, of course, is at liberty to disagree.

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[Anbaric]

1 hour ago, lmans said:

I think that Leica could have come up with a smaller version of the M6...much the same size of the Olympus om-1 (old film version), as when I put them side by side, I prefer the OM-1 as it is easier to walk around with.

Are / will young people or newbies purchase the M6? Are they purchasing the MP? I doubt either as the price-tag of over $5000 US is a bit steep.

The OM-1 designer, Yoshihisa Maitani, was originally inspired by the earlier screwmount Leicas; his first camera was the family IIIf. If you haven't already tried one, you might enjoy it. They are a bit more fiddly than the M cameras and the choice of modern lenses is more limited, but they are rewarding to use and fit in a jacket pocket.

I think the recent vogue for the M6 started when you could pick up a body for perhaps 1/3 of what they go for now, then the hype took over and hiked the prices. But my impression is that the interest younger photographers have in film cameras is quite genuine - I see them often enough in London (though as you suggest, a reasonably priced classic SLR is much more common than a Leica).

 

[Anbaric]

3 hours ago, verwackelt said:

Or Zeiss the Ikon…

That would be nice! Though Cosina also made these for Zeiss, and other late model film cameras like the Nikon FM10. They were probably the last big manufacturer of high quality manual focus 35mm cameras apart from Leica. Of course it's tough to compete with all the secondhand gear. At the time, you could find an M6 for not much more than a new Bessa, and for less than a ZM. If they made a Bessa today, they could easily undercut an original M6, but probably not an M2.

[JohnFM]

20 minutes ago, madNbad said:

It’s not the traditional black paint but the same matte black coating Leica uses on the M11.

Thanks -- am I right in assuming that this matte coating will be much more tough and durable than the black paint of the MP?

As an aside, I love the MP and have no problem with the beautiful brass showing through after time/use/wear.  Was just curious about the 'paint' on the new M6.

[logan2z]

53 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

"Conclusively"? No. But the only evidence one way or another points that way. Jono Slack makes the same remarks here (post #10).

Anyone here, of course, is at liberty to disagree.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I don't have a dog in the fight since I own an M-A rather than an MP and am not a buyer for the new M6.  But if the new M6 had a completely re-designed/modern circuit board that is considered more 'future proof', I would think that Leica would have made a big deal about that in their marketing materials for the camera.  The fact that they said nothing definitive about it and Jono doesn't seem to really know - despite the fact that he's a Leica insider who was given a camera for test ahead of the launch - then logic tells me that there is nothing really new there.  I just don't see why Leica would miss the opportunity to tout what many would consider the one big advantage of a new camera with an internal meter.  I'm more than happy to be wrong, however.  If the meter in the new M6 is a brand new design, using a more reliable supply chain that guarantees replacement parts for the foreseeable future, then that's great.

[logan2z]

6 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

There has not been a single mention of the new M6 (10557) being a limited edition in any Leica PR and press material. Playing it carefully.

They've explicitly said it is not a limited edition. 

[jsrockit]

7 hours ago, verwackelt said:

Me too…
A smaller cheaper camera like the older Leica/Minolta CLE would be tempting. But not just a M6 clone for 5k€…

Don't you think that a new Leica CL would be expensive too?  So, a $4000 CL clone would be better?  Even Voigtlander is going to have to charge $2000+ these days.  

Edited October 22, 2022 by jsrockit

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[jonoslack]

2 hours ago, logan2z said:

Not sure why people are coming to the conclusion that the MP has a limited life span due to a lack of parts availability.  I've still seen nothing that conclusively says the M6 isn't just an MP with a different paint job, rewind lever and film advance.

Hi There 

Well, I'm not sure that the MP has a limited life span, although there are issues with parts as I understand it.

You won't see anything conclusive to say that the "M6 isn't just an MP with a different paint job rewind lever and film advance". But as I understand it after talking with Leica staff it  seems like it is "pretty much an entirely new body" - with parts supplied from a new supply change. 

best