Was my IIIc upgraded to a IIIf ?

[Father of Wolves]

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Hi all,
I have a Leica IIIc based on its serial number being 4649xx.  However it has the flash port in the back.  It has the black dial though and the red for color black for black&white film dial. I heard that Leica would upgrade the IIIc units so is this what occurred with this camera?

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[romanus53]

yes, that was quite common as flash-light was very popular at that time

[nitroplait]

1 hour ago, Father of Wolves said:

However it has the flash port in the back.  It has the black dial though and the red for color black for black&white film dial. I heard that Leica would upgrade the IIIc units so is this what occurred with this camera?

Many cameras were also converted by third party techs, but if you by "black dial" mean a dial placed under the shutter speed dial, it is probably converted by Leica.

Edited August 8, 2022 by nitroplait

[romanus53]

have a look at #5 https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/314514-conversions-upgrades-modiefied-ones/

 

[Anbaric]

On a typical IIIc to IIIf factory conversion, the flash sync numbers are engraved on a small plate beneath the sync selector secured to the top cover with screws.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leica_IIIc_converted_to_IIIf_BD_ST_(5607717791).jpg

On a camera that started as a IIIf, these numbers are engraved directly on the top cover.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leica_IIIf_50mm_f1.5.jpg

Edited August 8, 2022 by Anbaric

[willeica]

5 hours ago, Anbaric said:

On a typical IIIc to IIIf factory conversion, the flash sync numbers are engraved on a small plate beneath the sync selector secured to the top cover with screws.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leica_IIIc_converted_to_IIIf_BD_ST_(5607717791).jpg

On a camera that started as a IIIf, these numbers are engraved directly on the top cover.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Leica_IIIf_50mm_f1.5.jpg

See post #8 on the link posted by romanus53 above.

William 

[Doug A]

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Here is my 1943 IIIc converted to a IIIf. 

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[Father of Wolves]

Thank you so much Romanus53, Anbaric and Willeica.  That was perfect information for me. My unit is clearly a upgrade IIIc to IIIf.  This was super helpful to me. Thank you!!  Getting some rolls of ilford B&W to test it out.   It will trigger an old flash Bell and Howell electronic flash unit from the early 60's, but so far I'm not having luck with it triggering the New Godox  Senior retro flash using the pc cable that came with the Godox.   Did anything change with PC ports from the early IIIf units?

[Father of Wolves]

Thanks Doug,  That Looks like my unit, though I can't see the back pc port.

 

Is there any value difference between an unmodified IIIc versus an upgraded model?

[Susie]

Hi and welcome to the forum. 

For electronic flash the sync dial needs to be set to 20 and the shutter set to 1/30 sec, but this might not be the cause of it not firing!

[Doug A]

2 hours ago, Father of Wolves said:

Thanks Doug,  That Looks like my unit, though I can't see the back pc port.

 

Is there any value difference between an unmodified IIIc versus an upgraded model?

Sorry, here is the back of my IIIc/f. 

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[Doug A]

2 hours ago, Susie said:

Hi and welcome to the forum. 

For electronic flash the sync dial needs to be set to 20 and the shutter set to 1/30 sec, but this might not be the cause of it not firing!

If the conversion was done by Leitz it could have been upgraded into a "black dial" or "red dial" IIIf. The former have a low-speed range of 1-30, for the latter it is 1-25. For a factory original IIIf the color refers to the flash delay numbers surrounding the high-speed shutter dial. I don't know if any of the conversions actual have red numbers. Mine has the 1-30 speeds and black numbers on the plate under the high-speed shutter dial. 

Anyway, the point of all the above is that, per the Leica instruction manual, for the "black dial" (1-30) IIIf the shutter speed and flash delay for electronic flash are 1/30 and either 2 or 0 depending on the serial number. For the "red dial" (1-25) IIIf they are either 1/25 and 0 or 1/50 and 20. I can confirm that with a Metz 36 C-2 flash the 1/30 and 0 settings work correctly for my IIIc/f conversion. 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Doug A
spelling

[Father of Wolves]

Great Information Susie and  Doug A!  I really appreciate the time and effort you both went to to help me.  I set the flash the sync dial needs to 20 with the shutter set to 30-1 on my Black Dial upgraded unit, and Bingo!  The flash is now working like a champ.    I really like the retro look, but the best part it actually works now.  Thanks a bunch!

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