Do lenses change over the years?

[kona]

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I am looking to get a Summilux 50mm asph and I have found two for sale. From the serial numbers it looks like one is quite early (~2004) and the other much newer (~2018).

Would there be a any benefit in getting the newer one, assuming condition is the same? Price difference is about $1000.

 

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[mikelevitt]

The optical formula for this lens has not changed.  But there are many things that can affect a lens over time.  Impact, dust, fungus, heat (lubricants evaporating and depositing on the elements) atmospheric haze (pollen, etc).  Assuming that they are in equivalent condition, they should perform the same.  I would rather have a 20 year old lens that had been used sparingly and kept in a low-humidity environment than a 4 year old that had been on safari and lived in a warm, humid city.

[elmars]

Take the newer one. The first batches of the lens might go a little stiff and not so smooth. FLE technology was new then and Leica needed some time to adjust the production process.

[kona]

Thank you very much both.

I am leaning towards the newer one (it’s from a Leica store and has a one year warranty, whereas the older is a private sale).

I think I will go to inspect both and see how they handle.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

The Leica community, forums and folklore is savage and rough, when it comes to such things. 
There are the old knowledgeable afficionados who were there, and you have the new users joining along, and this mix creates myths of all sorts. Mainly because the newbies educate themselves from other newbies and and blogs from newbies. This jungle can be mirrored by the simple and yet legendary game known as the telephone game. The one where you whisper a simple word to your neighbor and they whisper that same word on to the next one. But surprisingly, the word “Spaghetti” somehow becomes “I want to kill a cat”.

Well, this is how this community works. People have started to name the vintage years of their lenses and cameras.

One does not own a Leica M2 anymore. No! But one owns a 1967 Leica M2!! 
One does not own a Summilux 35mm. No! But one owns a 1968 Steel Rim pre-asph made in Canada Summilux. A few years ago, the made in canada thing was unimportant. Nor the year. Nor the infinity lock, but somehow this became relevant.

Mandler? Who was Mandler? And suddenly you had the Mandler look. This took off 10-ish years ago.

One does not own a Summicron Rigid. No! One owns a Summicron Rigid Version one or two, with Amber or blue coating!

And we all remember Steven who went from total newbie to total and absolute All-things-Leica expert in no time. A week of blog surfing was enough to become an expert on rarest lenses. Now I guess he’s moved on to Fabergé eggs.

This goes on and on.

All I can tell you, from a guy that was there when the 50 Lux asph came out, is that it was known as the most clinical lens that has ever seen the surface of the earth and it was suuuuper stiff that just wouldn’t break-in with use.
And the first version Summicron apo came with a silver baffle surrounding the lens element #2 inside the housing. Silver instead of Black. This caused crazy flare. People massively returned the lens for repair under warranty. The ones that have been left intact might double in value one day when the chinese will decide to call it “summicron apo silver baffle V1”.

All this just to say that you should buy both lenses just because you never know which one will become the Legendary one 🤪

Edited July 13, 2022 by Capuccino-Muffin
Typos

[elmars]

vor 34 Minuten schrieb Capuccino-Muffin:

when the 50 Lux asph came out, is that it was known as the most clinical lens that has ever seen the surface of the earth and it was suuuuper stiff

This is what I said.

[cheekz4dayz]

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On 7/13/2022 at 5:38 AM, Capuccino-Muffin said:

The Leica community, forums and folklore is savage and rough, when it comes to such things. 
There are the old knowledgeable afficionados who were there, and you have the new users joining along, and this mix creates myths of all sorts. Mainly because the newbies educate themselves from other newbies and and blogs from newbies. This jungle can be mirrored by the simple and yet legendary game known as the telephone game. The one where you whisper a simple word to your neighbor and they whisper that same word on to the next one. But surprisingly, the word “Spaghetti” somehow becomes “I want to kill a cat”.

Well, this is how this community works. People have started to name the vintage years of their lenses and cameras.

One does not own a Leica M2 anymore. No! But one owns a 1967 Leica M2!! 
One does not own a Summilux 35mm. No! But one owns a 1968 Steel Rim pre-asph made in Canada Summilux. A few years ago, the made in canada thing was unimportant. Nor the year. Nor the infinity lock, but somehow this became relevant.

Mandler? Who was Mandler? And suddenly you had the Mandler look. This took off 10-ish years ago.

One does not own a Summicron Rigid. No! One owns a Summicron Rigid Version one or two, with Amber or blue coating!

And we all remember Steven who went from total newbie to total and absolute All-things-Leica expert in no time. A week of blog surfing was enough to become an expert on rarest lenses. Now I guess he’s moved on to Fabergé eggs.

This goes on and on.

All I can tell you, from a guy that was there when the 50 Lux asph came out, is that it was known as the most clinical lens that has ever seen the surface of the earth and it was suuuuper stiff that just wouldn’t break-in with use.
And the first version Summicron apo came with a silver baffle surrounding the lens element #2 inside the housing. Silver instead of Black. This caused crazy flare. People massively returned the lens for repair under warranty. The ones that have been left intact might double in value one day when the chinese will decide to call it “summicron apo silver baffle V1”.

All this just to say that you should buy both lenses just because you never know which one will become the Legendary one 🤪

This is my favorite post in a long time lol! Thank you for this lol! I think what's most important is to enjoy the art of photography. Sometimes we get so deep into some aspects of the art that we forget why we fell in love with photography to begin with.

 

Anyway thanks again and enjoy shooting 

[lct]

My copy from 2005 was stiff and my dealer had to send it twice to Wetzlar to have it fixed. Now it is butter smooth but if i had to buy a back up i would not go for an early lens, especially if the later one comes with a warranty.

[colint544]

I think there is always sample variation. I bought a brand new black 50 Summilux ASPH back in 2012. The focussing was buttery smooth straight out of the box. I couldn't fault that lens in any way.

In 2015, I - possibly stupidly - traded it in for the newly released retro black chrome version of the same lens. I use that lens a lot, and the focussing has only ever been stiff and notchy, straight out of the box. It has never bedded in, or freed off. I can't be arsed sending it back, so I just put up with it.

[derleicaman]

2 hours ago, colint544 said:

I think there is always sample variation. I bought a brand new black 50 Summilux ASPH back in 2012. The focussing was buttery smooth straight out of the box. I couldn't fault that lens in any way.

In 2015, I - possibly stupidly - traded it in for the newly released retro black chrome version of the same lens. I use that lens a lot, and the focussing has only ever been stiff and notchy, straight out of the box. It has never bedded in, or freed off. I can't be arsed sending it back, so I just put up with it.

That is surprising. The Black Chrome version is based off of the original LHSA Silver Chrome and Black Paint lenses we did for the MP3 special edition. Being based on a brass body, whese were reportedly smoother in focusing than the anodized original version. I have a Black Chrome version and it is smooth as butter.

Edited July 23, 2022 by derleicaman

[colint544]

14 minutes ago, derleicaman said:

That is surprising. The Black Chrome version is based off of the original LHSA Silver Chrome and Black Paint lenses we did for the MP3 special edition. Being based on a brass body, whese were reportedly smoother in focusing than the anodized original version. I have a Black Chrome version and it is smooth as butter.

Was pretty surprised, myself. The aperture ring is certainly wonderfully damped, and the lens has that lovely brassy heft to it. And it takes wonderful pictures. But that focusing ring, with its stiff flat spots is a major disappointment. Be glad you got a good copy.

[derleicaman]

47 minutes ago, colint544 said:

Was pretty surprised, myself. The aperture ring is certainly wonderfully damped, and the lens has that lovely brassy heft to it. And it takes wonderful pictures. But that focusing ring, with its stiff flat spots is a major disappointment. Be glad you got a good copy.

For sure! I remember reading tons of posts regarding the problem with the focusing ring on the anodized lens version. If I remember, it has to do with the FLE function. The brass lenses supposedly solved the issue. We will be having the LHSA meeting this fall in Dublin, and Peter Karbe will be there. I will ask him about this.

[colint544]

Just now, derleicaman said:

For sure! I remember reading tons of posts regarding the problem with the focusing ring on the anodized lens version. If I remember, it has to do with the FLE function. The brass lenses supposedly solved the issue. We will be having the LHSA meeting this fall in Dublin, and Peter Karbe will be there. I will ask him about this.

Really appreciate that, and would love to hear Peter's thoughts. My understanding was that the tolerances on the 50 Summilux ASPH were always very tight indeed, more so than most other lenses Leica were manufacturing back in 2004. 

[pgk]

13 hours ago, colint544 said:

Really appreciate that, and would love to hear Peter's thoughts. My understanding was that the tolerances on the 50 Summilux ASPH were always very tight indeed, more so than most other lenses Leica were manufacturing back in 2004. 

Fous mechanisms in such lenses are simply precision engineering. From what I remember reading they use brass helicoil mechanisms (the recent summarits use aluminium) and I would be very surprised if these differed, even in the black chrome version. There should be little or no sample variation given the price. Mine (black anodised) is absolutely fine and I've owned it quite a number of years. Any that exhibit tight or nothchy focus are faulty, its that simple.

[lct]

1 hour ago, pgk said:

Any that exhibit tight or nothchy focus are faulty, its that simple.

+1

[Adam Bonn]

My 2016 50 Lux was bought secondhand privately in 2019 and turned out that it had a fault, I got it fixed on my dime - the focus was smooth before and after its trip to Leica

My first 50 latest version non-APO cron (which I sold to fund the lux) had a lovely click to the aperture ring but flared very easily, my second same version 50 cron (I missed it) hasn't got such a lovely aperture ring click but is noticeably better at not flaring

As noted above, sample variation exists. Age is no guaranty of anything. A warranty is beneficial.

[Stein K S]

One more that can report about probably the best butter smooth focus on my 50 Lux BC compared to all my other lenses. And also totally consistent all the way through the focus throw. Very happy and also impressed! 😀👍