Adobe Standard as import profile (instead of M11 camera profile)

[elmars]

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I want to use Adobe Standard as import profile by default instead of M11 camera profile. But even when I select it that way in Lightroom preferences, it always sets the M11 camera profile. This is true for Lightroom (mobile) and Lightroom classic. With other cameras (eg Apple RAW) or other Leicas is not so, there comes Adobe standard. Bug or feature? Is there anything you can do about it?

[M11 for me]

Is the "Adobe Standard" profile then the one that was created especially for the M11 by Adobe? Is that true then for any camera that when choosing "Adobe Standard" that you have the "best" profile for the specific camera according to Adobe?

I must say that all these topics related to profiles are difficult to understand for me. On the other hand when I create an own profile in the development module of LR Classic and then store it as a profile with a special name and then go to the Lightroom settings and choose that profile as my private standard import profile for the specific camera then I get a specific result. Is that the way to go? For my Q2 I proceeded this way as I thought that the colors were too blue compared to the M11. Then I took a set of 2 images each, one takeken with Q2 the second one with M11 and changed the Q2 colors in LR in the calibration sliders so that I see the same/similar colors as in the M11 pictures. I created then a profile and since I take this as my import default for the Q2. Is that the way to go?

Sorry @elmars when this goes a bit away from your own question. But I hope that its ok.

[elmars]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb M11 for me:

Is the "Adobe Standard" profile then the one that was created especially for the M11 by Adobe? Is that true then for any camera that when choosing "Adobe Standard" that you have the "best" profile for the specific camera according to Adobe?

Yes, so it is. Please read here:

 

vor 2 Stunden schrieb M11 for me:

changed the Q2 colors in LR in the calibration sliders so that I see the same/similar colors as in the M11 pictures.

This is one way, but it is only based on Your subjective and perhaps not accurate view. And the calibration sliders cause a general color drift what can be a problem with others than the chosen photos. Perhaps it is better to create a profile with a color card. There are two systems: One from X-Rite (Color Checker) that creates a camera profile (similar to the Leica M11 profile). The other from DataColor (SpyderCheckr) that creates a HSL-preset. The last one has the advantage that You can see what it does by a look at the HSL sliders and correct it manually if You want.

[Adam Bonn]

1 hour ago, elmars said:

This is one way, but it is only based on Your subjective and perhaps not accurate view. And the calibration sliders cause a general color drift what can be a problem

The calibration sliders can of course be used creatively, but in essence they are actually controlling the chromatic adaption of the standard illuminants to D50

The OP/anyone interested can read all about that here in chapter 6

1 hour ago, elmars said:

Perhaps it is better to create a profile with a color card. There are two systems:

There are more than two systems and the higher end stuff costs a lot of money!

I tend to favour Lumariver (no affiliation) as it allows one to design full dcp profiles, to be as basic (matrix only) or as complicated (matrices, RIMM space coordinates, subjective look up table) as one requires.

My understanding (......) is that ultimately the X-Rite/DataColor color checkers are to create profiles for specific situations (eg on location) rather than a forever profile that works everywhere, hence why the DataColor simply makes a preset not a profile

That doesn't mean that one can't make a forever profile with it though!

If making an X-Rite profile using their software you'll end up with a single (or double if you made an StdA one at the same time) matrix with no forward matrix, so I'd recommend aiming for a D50 light source

Camera colours are also affected by other variables such as the quality of the WB algorithm, the state of amplification of the base chip, the CFA and the chip's native DR and its distribution to form the tonality. 

 

 

[Adam Bonn]

8 hours ago, elmars said:

I want to use Adobe Standard as import profile by default instead of M11 camera profile. But even when I select it that way in Lightroom preferences, it always sets the M11 camera profile. This is true for Lightroom (mobile) and Lightroom classic. With other cameras (eg Apple RAW) or other Leicas is not so, there comes Adobe standard. Bug or feature? Is there anything you can do about it?

I don't know how you're doing it, nor do I have an M11.. but FWIW as I have quite a few profiles for my cameras I've made a selection of presets that amount too

import preset#1

import preset#2

import preset#3

and I just select the one I want from 'Develop Settings' in the apply during import section in the import screen

I'm sure it's nicer if you just want the same profile every time to have LR select it based on camera model, but maybe this is a work a round for you?

[elmars]

I have only one camera, the M11. And I have made a preset that works fine with LR classic. But it doesn´t work with LR mobile. If I use the preset for iPhone RAW photos it works with both, LR classic and LR mobile. So the M11 DNG files must have a magic that hinders LR to work properly at importing photos.

My problem is that different profiles are working, depending on importing in LR classic and LR mobile. I use both for importing, the latter when I am on the way.

[SrMi]

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16 hours ago, elmars said:

I want to use Adobe Standard as import profile by default instead of M11 camera profile. But even when I select it that way in Lightroom preferences, it always sets the M11 camera profile. This is true for Lightroom (mobile) and Lightroom classic. With other cameras (eg Apple RAW) or other Leicas is not so, there comes Adobe standard. Bug or feature? Is there anything you can do about it?

The current default is Adobe Color, not Adobe Standard anymore. Are you sure that other cameras get the Adobe Standard profile?

In Lightroom Classic, in Preferences, you can specify which profile to apply for which camera at import.

[elmars]

Adobes naming is a bit confusing. The Adobe standard import settings are called „Adobe Standard“ in the preferences. The include Adobe color as standard color profile. Adobe color is based (a variation) of the Adobe standard color profile. I do understand this (so I think).

The problem is: Whatever profile I set in the import settings the active profile is always the M11 profile from Leica.

How is it with you?

[hmzimelka]

This is an Adobe bug from what I understand. I was hoping this would be fixed some time ago since Lightroom has been updated 3 times since I've received my M11. 
 

Anyways.  I set my import settings to apply a user preset with what my default M11 settings should be. If I forget to enable these, I simply right click on the imported images and reset develop settings after which the proper defaults are applied. 
 

Oh and Adobe Colour isn't a dcp camera profile. It's actually just an xml file that uses the Adobe Standard dcp camera profile and applies a tone curve over or instead of the base tone curve. If I edit the Adobe Color xmp file and remove the tone curve data then the RAW images look identical to Adobe Standard profile.

 [edit] I see there is a colour lookup table in the XMP file so it would apply colour changes over Adobe Standard. My bad

Edited July 5, 2022 by hmzimelka

[hmzimelka]

It's quite frustrating this bug.

Every camera I have has its own custom settings that I've set as defaults in Lightroom Preferences. It's only the M11 DNG files that the settings aren't honoured at import unless these develop settings are specified in the "Apply During Import" box in the Import Dialogue Window.

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Edited July 5, 2022 by hmzimelka

[elmars]

Thank You. So I am not alone, it seems to be a bug. In LR classic You can handle this with the "Apply During Import" box in the import dialogue window, but not so in LR mobile.

[Adam Bonn]

On 7/5/2022 at 12:14 PM, hmzimelka said:

edit] I see there is a colour lookup table in the XMP file so it would apply colour changes over Adobe Standard. My bad

Adobe color is a one size fits all colour table, adobe color (and landscape/portrait/whatever) for the Mx is exactly the same as is used for every fuji/sony/nikon/cannon/etc etc etc etc 

adobe standard is adobe’s take on profiling your camera model from unwhitebalanced raw data to d50 via two standard illuminants, then at the end they put a LUT to give it ‘the adobe look’ that we all know and love 😇

The file name of adobe standard is camera brand / camera model, but the display name is always adobe standard, so by using colour tables that reference ‘adobe standard’ they’ve got one single file that will work with any current (and all future) cameras that have an adobe standard dcp file.

My HUNCH here is that they did this to update the limitations of the dcp solution (which is very old now) but without having to re-profile every camera and fk up with people’s historical edits.