Herbertus Posted June 5, 2022 Share #1 Posted June 5, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Good Afternoon, i have revently managed to clean my Leica Summar 50mm from arroung 1937. Internally the lens is beatuifuly with no scars or paintchips. But the frontlens is heavly scratched. I've tried contacting my local Leica dealer and camera store, but both couldn't really help me. Does anyone have an idea how i can "fix" it myself without buying a new lens and spending a huge amount of money. Thanks in regard! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/333175-ruined-front-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4448441'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 5, 2022 Posted June 5, 2022 Hi Herbertus, Take a look here Ruined Front Lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Anbaric Posted June 5, 2022 Share #2 Posted June 5, 2022 It's hard to tell the exact condition of the lens from your photos. In general, a few scratches, even if they are quite heavy, may not have much impact on the image (so shoot with it and see). However, many fine scratches can greatly reduce contrast and, at worst, reduce the Summar to a 'special effect' lens with a permanent diffuser. Fixing this is far from trivial: https://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/summar.html Someone like Alan Starkie might be able to do this, but with the likely cost and lead time you might be better off looking for another lens unless you have a particular attachment to this one. https://www.cameraworks-uk.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 5, 2022 Share #3 Posted June 5, 2022 If you want to try polishing the lens yourself, you can get cerium oxide over the internet / ebay. At least you won't have to worry about a lens coating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted June 5, 2022 Share #4 Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) Have you tried the lens already? It depends, if you will use film or sensor, but I would try software (TOPAZ) first. By the way you cannot compare a prewar Summar with a modern Summicron. Edited June 5, 2022 by jankap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbertus Posted June 5, 2022 Author Share #5 Posted June 5, 2022 So i have tried it already and its bad. I didn't realize how bad it was to see on the Photos. So basicly there is no spot on the frontlens where there isn't a scratch. The contrast isn't even bad but the sharpness is so low that you are not able to see anything. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (The picture is Focused correctly, i have double checked with LV and Rangefinder) Even on a leica SL or similar it doesn't change, and at longer rangers it gets marginally better. 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (The picture is Focused correctly, i have double checked with LV and Rangefinder) Even on a leica SL or similar it doesn't change, and at longer rangers it gets marginally better. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/333175-ruined-front-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4448553'>More sharing options...
Herbertus Posted June 5, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) vor 2 Stunden schrieb Anbaric: Someone like Alan Starkie might be able to do this, but with the likely cost and lead time you might be better off looking for another lens unless you have a particular attachment to this one. I have seen them, the problem is that i am not in the UK and they dont take any lens/camera from outside the UK Edited June 5, 2022 by Herbertus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted June 5, 2022 Share #7 Posted June 5, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 7 minutes ago, Herbertus said: I have seen them, the problem is that i am not in the UK and they dont take any lens/camera from outside the UK I don't know who else may be able to do this, but you might want to take a look at this thread for suggestions, and maybe ask if anyone knows which other technicians do lens polishing (and perhaps coating, which the Summar should benefit from): It could also be worth checking the German language section of the forum. I would be dubious about the DIY approach, because the amount of glass you may have to remove to polish out the scratches could alter the formula of the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 5, 2022 Share #8 Posted June 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Anbaric said: I would be dubious about the DIY approach, because the amount of glass you may have to remove to polish out the scratches could alter the formula of the lens. The lens will never be able to be brought back to its original capability even if professionally ground with a matching polishing fixture. Even with the right radius, the amount of glass removed will change the thickness of the lens element.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbertus Posted June 5, 2022 Author Share #9 Posted June 5, 2022 So basicly i need to lookout for a new Lens... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted June 5, 2022 Share #10 Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, zeitz said: The lens will never be able to be brought back to its original capability even if professionally ground with a matching polishing fixture. Even with the right radius, the amount of glass removed will change the thickness of the lens element.. I agree it won't be exactly as it was (because you've lost some glass), but a professional with the right tools, measuring equipment and experience should be able to polish it into something that performs well. It wasn't uncommon to have this done to the Summar at one point, because the glass is soft. Finding a better one is preferable, though, and not necessarily more expensive, but nice ones don't come up that often. It's easier to find a good Summitar, and many of them are factory coated. Edited June 5, 2022 by Anbaric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemgb Posted June 5, 2022 Share #11 Posted June 5, 2022 I have a Summar with near perfect front and rear elements but a fungus etched middle group. I’m wondering, it it possible to swap groups between lenses or were they all matched at the factory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 5, 2022 Share #12 Posted June 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Herbertus said: So i have tried it already and its bad. I didn't realize how bad it was to see on the Photos. So basicly there is no spot on the frontlens where there isn't a scratch. The contrast isn't even bad but the sharpness is so low that you are not able to see anything. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! (The picture is Focused correctly, i have double checked with LV and Rangefinder) Even on a leica SL or similar it doesn't change, and at longer rangers it gets marginally better. No that image is not focused, the front element of a lens can take a far more significant amount of damage and still render far better photographs than this one you have posted. Maybe it has been taken apart and not re-assembled properly, but your fuzzy image is not the results of scratches. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbertus Posted June 5, 2022 Author Share #13 Posted June 5, 2022 vor 39 Minuten schrieb 250swb: No that image is not focused, the front element of a lens can take a far more significant amount of damage and still render far better photographs than this one you have posted. Maybe it has been taken apart and not re-assembled properly, but your fuzzy image is not the results of scratches. i have double checked with an SL, the image was the same (in color tho) I also havn't been in the lebnses under the aperture. So if there was something wrong, it must have been from the previous owner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 5, 2022 Share #14 Posted June 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Herbertus said: i have double checked with an SL, the image was the same (in color tho) I also havn't been in the lebnses under the aperture. So if there was something wrong, it must have been from the previous owner. It looks like your lens has been extended in one of the photos posted of it, but the result in the blurry photo is so far off that it looks like you didn't extend it into the shooting position. Honestly, what you show in the blurry image is not the result of scratches, it is fundamentally not focusing the lens. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted June 5, 2022 Share #15 Posted June 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, 250swb said: No that image is not focused, the front element of a lens can take a far more significant amount of damage and still render far better photographs than this one you have posted. Maybe it has been taken apart and not re-assembled properly, but your fuzzy image is not the results of scratches. I think that too. Of course you found the best possible focus. But there could be something else wrong. See the thread Summar CLA Edited June 5, 2022 by jankap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anbaric Posted June 5, 2022 Share #16 Posted June 5, 2022 43 minutes ago, Herbertus said: i have double checked with an SL, the image was the same (in color tho) I also havn't been in the lebnses under the aperture. So if there was something wrong, it must have been from the previous owner. Did you take a shot before you disassembled it for cleaning? Not sure if it's possible to do anything wrong when removing and replacing just the front element, but might be worth checking if you happen to have a photo. Even with my uncleaned Summar you can see that the lens is fundamentally sharp behind the fog. I assume yours was fully extended and locked when you took the test shot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbertus Posted June 5, 2022 Author Share #17 Posted June 5, 2022 vor 54 Minuten schrieb 250swb: but the result in the blurry photo is so far off that it looks like you didn't extend it into the shooting position. Honestly, what you show in the blurry image is not the result of scratches, it is fundamentally not focusing the lens So i took a Shot before cleaning it. There was some haze behind the 1. and 2. lens. After i cleaned the lens it got noticable sharper. The Image shared was take with the lens extended to the full lenght. If there is a problem with the focusing it would have to come from the mechanism since i focused it correctly as far as i am aware. (extend the lens out, lock it, push the tap out of the infinty lock and focus with the rangefinder to the subject) vor 39 Minuten schrieb jankap: See the thread Summar CLA i have used that thread to disasamble my lens, since i had some problems. I think i even asked a question or two in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironringer Posted June 6, 2022 Share #18 Posted June 6, 2022 I agree with 250swb and other comments - that poor-soft focus is NOT the result of front element scratches. From my similar experience with a 1930s Summar, an expert took it apart and verified that there was an optical problem with incorrect element(s) or spacing, possibly dating from the factory assembly, that he was not able to fix. For a reasonable price I found another clean Summar that performs almost as well as a 1950s Summitar. An example picture is attached, taken with my 1935 Summar on an M240 camera. Very pleasing results from an uncoated prewar lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/333175-ruined-front-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4448783'>More sharing options...
jankap Posted June 6, 2022 Share #19 Posted June 6, 2022 Somehow I remember, that I have read in the forum somewhere, that a repairer had installed one glass reversed in a lens by doing a CLA. That is, what 250swb means. You have correctly focussed an incorrect lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted June 6, 2022 Share #20 Posted June 6, 2022 5 hours ago, ironringer said: An example picture is attached, taken with my 1935 Summar on an M240 camera. Very pleasing results from an uncoated prewar lens. That is the same hood as the one for the Elmar. Interesting. Perhaps I should have a look for a Summar after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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