LEICA SUMMICRON-M 50mm f/2 version 5

[LCM94]

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Hello

I am lost in the many versions of this lens. Is there somewhere I can read the differences between each variant. I would like to own one for my SL2-S but not sure if by default I should get the latest one or not.

Thanks

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[lct]

58 minutes ago, LCM94 said:

Hello

I am lost in the many versions of this lens. Is there somewhere I can read the differences between each variant. I would like to own one for my SL2-S but not sure if by default I should get the latest one or not.

Nothing can beat an SL lens on SL cameras and lenses giving the best results on M cameras don't perform necessarily at their best on mirrorless cameras, be they Leica's or not. Besides, there are several threads comparing Summicron's 50 here, you may wish to do a search on the forum and/or on Leica Wiki

[evikne]

1 hour ago, LCM94 said:

Hello

I am lost in the many versions of this lens. Is there somewhere I can read the differences between each variant. I would like to own one for my SL2-S but not sure if by default I should get the latest one or not.

Thanks

You can also read more here:

https://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/50mm-summicron-comparison-table.htm

[LCM94]

The v4 seems the most relevant choice for me. About M lenses in SL cameras I know they are probably not the best, depending on what you are looking for. I am very pleased with my Voigtlander lenses. What they are best at is size and weight though 👍

[LCM94]

The Leica Apo is wayyy too expensive. I guess you are referring to the Voigtlander’s. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by LCM94

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, VailJohnson said:

...3) v4 and v4 built in hood (BIH)

4) APO Summicron...

What will you name the next non-APO version and APO version then? Do they play leapfrog with the version numbers from here?

Regular Cron and APO Cron are not in the same lineage, although some here conflate the two.

[hdmesa]

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2 minutes ago, VailJohnson said:

 

- If there is one, the next version of the 50 Summicron will be the: Summicron-M 50 f/2 ASPH (I). If not the following one should be the Summicron-M 50 f/2 (v).

I think the non-ASPH 50mm Summicron has reached the end with v4.   

- The next version of the 50 APO will be the: APO-Summicron-M 50 f/2 (II)

Whatever the next non-APO 50 Cron design is, it will be called v6 by most of us. If Leica wants to change that, they could do so by adding version numbers to the official product names or even just the descriptions.

As far as I’m concerned, they could just keep making the v5 forever. 

[lct]

22 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Whatever the next non-APO 50 Cron design is, it will be called v6 by most of us.

50/2 v6 indeed and the next apo would be called 50/2 apo v2. If the next non apo is an asph lens, it would be the 50/2 asph v1 then. Easy as pie

[hdmesa]

36 minutes ago, lct said:

50/2 v6 indeed and the next apo would be called 50/2 apo v2. If the next non apo is an asph lens, it would be the 50/2 asph v1 then. Easy as pie

Bingo! 👍

[Bronco McBeast]

Version 1- collaps

2-Rigid

3- the fiirst Black abodized production lens

4- with tab

5- Built in hood. Without tab

6- apo

7- apo “II”

8-apo “III”

So on

[hansvons]

3 hours ago, Bronco McBeast said:

4- with tab

In my opinion, the V4 is Leica's most interesting classic 50mm. It is a classic double Gauss design but optimised to the maximum that design can be capable of. This is what you get:

• Classic rendering of faces. They appear flatter than in modern zooms or primes of the same focal length. Expect a 75mm look with a 50mm field of view.
• Dimensionality is there but not popping to the eye. The term decent fits best.
• It shows a soft, somewhat long-ish focus roll-off. Portraits shot at f2,8 -  f4 don't look like cut out. 
• It renders a tad cooler than the 24-90 SL zoom but less so than Voigtländer's classic offerings (the lenses that are based on legacy designs such as the 35mm Nokton 1,4). That slightly cooler rendering helps skin tones, in my opinion.
• At f 5,6 and infinity, it's dead sharp for lush landscapes.
• The tab makes all the difference. V5 with a built-in hood has the same optics but misses the tab.
• It looks nice on the SL2-S, even better on Ms, which cannot be said about classic M lenses with a shorter focal length.
• The Canada version can be had for 1K. 
• It works perfectly with the 35mm Summicron M ASPH, which shows a similar rendering, sharpness, and colour (perhaps a tad warmer). Older 35mm Summicrons of the same vintage don't reach the 50mm V4's mid-field and corner sharpness at the respective stop.

It's my preferred 50mm.

[lct]

3 hours ago, VailJohnson said:

It is what we would call it but not what Leica would call it. The official name would be as I said. 

This is what I said. Although officially the name would be as I typed it 

Again. This is what I said. But the correct name would be as I typed it.

I wasn't responding to your posts, sorry if i gave you this feeling. I was trying to say that we count classic lenses differently to asph and apo ones here on the LUF. When an asph lens succeeds to a classic one, we describe it as asph v1 generally followed by asph v2, asph v3, etc. As for classic Summicron 50's there are still discussions about v1 or v2 but there is a general consent about v3 and v4 here. Only eventual issue is v5 that Leica still calls v4 because they concentrate on opical designs. Some (most?) of us prefer thinking that optics don't tell the whole story of a lens and the loss of a focus tab or a new built-in hood can give rise to a new version like 50/2 v5. Now a lens can keep the same ID when only a detail changed, eg the "tiger paw" focus tab of early 50/2 v4 becoming concave on following variants. All this to say that v5 is v5 and will remain so on the LUF most probably. The next version will be v6 then unless it is an asph lens, in which case we will describe it as asph v1 if we go on doing what we did for other lenses previously. FWIW.

[hdmesa]

17 hours ago, Bronco McBeast said:

Version 1- collaps

2-Rigid

3- the fiirst Black abodized production lens

4- with tab

5- Built in hood. Without tab

6- apo

7- apo “II”

8-apo “III”

So on

The APO is not in the same version line as the non-APO.

Of course call them whatever makes you happy, but if you want to actually communicate clearly on this forum exactly what lens you’re referring to, I would not call the APO the “ Cron v6”.

[Bronco McBeast]

32 minutes ago, VailJohnson said:

No the APO and the Mandler lens are 2 different variants of the Summicron. Just like the 35 APO didn’t replace the 35 ASPH. One didn’t supersede the other. They’re both being made new. They didn’t replace a $2,800 Lens with a $9,000 lens. There is still a normal 50 Summicron. The upgrade to the Summicron would be a Summicron-ASPH that never happened. Or hasn’t happened yet. 

I’m sure if it happens it’ll look like crap. Like the new Leica lenses. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Hopefully it doesn’t. It’s the only lens you can get new that hasn’t changed since 1979. Everything else went aspherical and more corrected. Owning the Mandler 50 is like owning a piece of Leica history as far as I’m concerned. And you can get it brand new!

when people get it and they’re not expecting much they’re blown away by it like this guy 

 

they soon realize it’s the only 50 they’ll ever need for their daily use. 

You make up your own strict rules of what validates or invalidates a “version”.  Adding mini rules regarding pricing... 

This erroneous thinking is exactly what Leica tried to do with the M10, but calling it “M”. They judged that they’d suddenly Reach the M24 within 2030 while it took the 50 years to go from M3 to M4. The M-Type was a big error in concept. A WOKE BRAINFART, in marketing terms. Finally they understood that the moment they’ll reach M24, or M73, or M102 will be the moment, whenever.
 

I am in the camp that believes that the Version 4 is the one with the Tab, and version 5 is the one with the Hood and without the focus tab. 

I see no problem whatsoever in calling the actual apo-asph summicron the Version 6. But you seem inclined into giving it a better number, as if “Version 6” was somehow diminishing it, even though it is 3 times more expensive than version 5...

By the way, I own V6... I don’t see it as a better lens but merely as a different brush.
 

Lately I am very enamored by the V1, vastly prefering it to all the rest. This winter I will maybe switch to V3. We will see in time and place.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Bronco McBeast

[Bronco McBeast]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

The APO is not in the same version line as the non-APO.

Of course call them whatever makes you happy, but if you want to actually communicate clearly on this forum exactly what lens you’re referring to, I would not call the APO the “ Cron v6”.

It is l clearly the Sixth, though. 

And since we’re in the “apo” thing, one should know that “apo” is mainly a marketing hype, whereas ALL lenses are APO to some extent. One could say that the summicron V1 is APO and one wouldn’t be wrong. There is simply no clear cut wether a lens is APO, but the marketing tag. But that is a conversation for another day.

As far as the summicrons are concerned, as well as common sense, the Sixth summicron Iteration (or call it Version) fall on the so-called “apo”. 
 

Wether one man’s fourth child is the first child with wife #2, it is still his Fourth.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Bronco McBeast

[hdmesa]

14 minutes ago, Bronco McBeast said:

It is l clearly the Sixth, though…

 

I don’t think we have the same definition of the word.

There is no reason to label these with version numbers except to come up with a common language in a group so we can all understand what we’re referring to when we are discussing them. Taking a view outside this norm, well you’re certainly free to do so, but me personally, I don’t buy the logic in your thought process nor find your analogy applicable.

Edited September 5, 2023 by hdmesa
grammar

[Bronco McBeast]

1 minute ago, hdmesa said:

I don’t think we have the same definition of the word.

There is no reason to label these with version numbers except to come up with a common language in a group so we can all understand what we’re referring to when we are discussing them. Taking a view outside this norm, well you’re certainly free to do so, but me personally, I don’t buy the logic in your thought process nor find your analogy applicable.

Products are viewed as family trees, which is exactly that. BMW’s 3-5-7 series... The summilux family, the summicron family, the Noctilux ... and there is the Leica culture with version numbering within the group family tree. Summicron version 1,2 or 3... Noctilux Version 1, 2, 3...

Same as Human family trees, with the family name convention. Mister Jones’ Fourth son will remain the Fourth son abd he will be a Jones. It won’t magically become “yeah it’s his fourth son but it’s actually son number one from wife number 3”. 
 

Anyhow, the sixth summicron is the sixth. I can’t understand why it could be the first from Branch number 2... but hey, it’s all first wold problems.

 

[lct]

16 minutes ago, Bronco McBeast said:

Anyhow, the sixth summicron is the sixth. I can’t understand why it could be the first from Branch number 2

Because we don't count asph and apo lenses the same way as classic lenses on the LUF. A new classic lens would be 50/2 v6 then, a new asph lens would be 50/2 asph v1, and a new apo lens 50/2 apo v2.

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[hdmesa]

23 minutes ago, Bronco McBeast said:

Products are viewed as family trees, which is exactly that. BMW’s 3-5-7 series... The summilux family, the summicron family, the Noctilux ... and there is the Leica culture with version numbering within the group family tree. Summicron version 1,2 or 3... Noctilux Version 1, 2, 3...

Same as Human family trees, with the family name convention. Mister Jones’ Fourth son will remain the Fourth son abd he will be a Jones. It won’t magically become “yeah it’s his fourth son but it’s actually son number one from wife number 3”. 
 

Anyhow, the sixth summicron is the sixth. I can’t understand why it could be the first from Branch number 2... but hey, it’s all first wold problems.

 

Leica M lens version nomenclature doesn't follow the conventions you listed, it's a culturally-developed versioning that comes directly from this forum. It's a language we adopted over time to keep track of what we're referring to out of a vast sea of lenses. @lct just summed it up above. That's how the majority of us have unofficially agreed to label these lenses.

[Bobonli]

As someone also shopping for a 50, I'd say that the nomenclature is not universally accepted or understood, at least not at all the places I've been shopping. Some of them just list "50 mm f2 Summicron" and you have to follow up with questions to see what version they are selling. I'm looking for a V4 and have had to be very specific: " I want v4, that's the model with a focusing tab and removable hood." So far in about 50% of the responses, the seller has written back, "yes and it has a hood that collapses into the lens body." 

I don't think I've seen this level of familiarity with a manufacturer's product line with the exception of maybe watches and high end shotguns. It probably exists in other areas where the tools are also collectibles.