R Zoom lens choice (35-70mm f4 vs 35-70mm f3.5)

[pridbor]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I know these lenses have been discussed before, and maybe the answer is obvious, just not for me right now, so please don't get angry with me 🙂 

A recent post mentioned the 35-70mm f4, and that caught my attention, and a few questions arose.

I looked at the obvious places, eBay, and found that some stated that the lens is Asph, but most didn't, so my question is: is this lens Asph, and it's not specified because it's so/too obvious?

They all mentioned ROM, and since I have an R9, that would fit the bill if only the price did ($1200-1800)🙂 

I don't have any ROM lenses, so I figured that this might be a good first one?  I might as well ask if this lens is worth double or triple the price of the "equivalent" 35-70mm f3.5 non-ROM lens?

Thanks

 

Preben

[LeicaR10]

Pridbor,   To help answer your question about the Leica 35-70 f/4 ROM being Aspheric, here is the Leica information sheet for the lens.  When I owned the R system, using a R9 w/DMR I also had the 35-70 f/4 ROM version.  The lens is superb.  The color, contrast, resolution all help render photographs that may meet your vision ideals.  It certainly did for me.  If you get the lens from eBay or online, just make certain there seller has a return policy.  Sometimes, sellers may not disclose issues with the lens, such as haze, fungus, glass markings, decentering etc.. Personally, I gave up on eBay years ago for this very reason.  I either buy from a reputible dealer or outfils like KEH that stand behind their sales. You might look there as well.

Try:   https://www.overgaard.dk/pdf/Vario-Elmar-R_35-70_mm_Technical_Data_en.pdf 

 You might look at these photographs taken with the Leica 35-70.  There are a few taken with the Leica R8 with DMR on page 3.

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=362&page=3&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32

Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

PS:  I have never used the Leica 35-70 f/3.5 lens, but I am certain there are a few R forum members who use/used it that might help you.

Edited May 12, 2022 by LeicaR10

[wizard]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb pridbor:

and found that some stated that the lens is Asph, but most didn't, so my question is: is this lens Asph,

Does it matter? The lens is what it is, and it is a very good lens, regardless of whether asperical lens elements have been put to use in that lens or not. My faint recollection is that one aspherical element was indeed part of the optical construction of that lens, but I am not sure. Thinking about it, I may have Leica's original pdf on that lens at home, so give me until tomorrow and I'll find out.

[John Robinson]

I have the 35-70 f/4 ROM and can confirm it is an excellent lens.  I don't know about the f/3.5 but the f/4 ROM has two big advantages:  if your camera can read the ROM chip, the lens will provide identification and focal length (tested with the Leica R-Adapter L, R8 or R9 may have extra features); the macro function at the 70mm end of the lens gives excellent close-up results.  I have used this lens on film and digital, have no complaints.

See below a shot of spring leaves and staircase on an escarpment, taken with a Leica R6.2 and the Vario-Elmar-R 4/35-70 @ 50mm on Fuji Superia 400.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[pridbor]

I think that I got more technical data in that link than I can comprehend, and from a countryman of mine too :-)

You are right Asph isn't a deal braker, but I was curious why some didn't advertise this feature as it seems that many "here" consider this a significant item.

Now I just have to convince the better half that this acquisition is a life necessity.

Thanks all

Preben

 

 

[bcorton]

Preben,

It looks as though you've already made your decision, but I thought I'd add this in support.  I had the 35-70 f/4 and was delighted with it.  I did not own the f/3.5 which was an earlier lens that I believe was co-produced with Minolta (maybe someone will chime in with more specifics).  However, from everything I've read, the f/4 version is noticeably superior (again maybe someone with experience of both will add to this discussion).

As to whether the lens has an aspherical element, I can only repeat what Erwin Puts has written: that the f/2.8 version of the lens was designated ASPH and did have an aspherical element.  According to Puts, Leica did not use the "ASPH" designation for the f/4 version, even though it retained the aspherical element.  I can neither verify nor refute that claim.  I am attaching a .pdf file on the lens in question, and which Mr. Puts made freely available during his lifetime.  I ask the moderators to kindly remove it if posting it constitutes a violation of copyright law in any way.

All the best,

Brent

Quote

 

 

35-70.PDF

Edited May 12, 2022 by bcorton

[AZN]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 hours ago, bcorton said:

According to Puts, Leica did not use the "ASPH" designation for the f/4 version, even though it retained the aspherical element.  I can neither verify nor refute that claim.

To quote from the PDF document on Page 2:

Quote

For some reason Leica omitted the designation 'ASPH' for this lens, although it has an aspherical surface.

Great lens BTW, although like many others I find the 35-70 zoom range a bit limiting.

Edited May 12, 2022 by AZN

[jankap]

Is it this lens?

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/images/4/4f/Vario-Elmar-R_35-70_mm_Technical_Data_en.pdf

The term asph is is not important, it is a manufacturing property. It could even be critical, because of onion rings in the bokeh. 

APO would be a far more important announcement, but here the standardisation fails.

[AZN]

55 minutes ago, jankap said:

onion rings in the bokeh.

The lens in question maxes out at f4.  Not open enough for large "bokeh balls" and hence "onion rings" inside them.

FWIW I have used this lens for a few years now, and have never seen onion rings from the 35-70mm f4.  Mind you, have never used it at night.

[wizard]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb pridbor:

You are right Asph isn't a deal braker, but I was curious why some didn't advertise this feature as it seems that many "here" consider this a significant item.

As promised yesterday, I had a look at my Leica documents at home, and found the original Leica pdf on that lens (Leica used to, maybe they still do, issue a pdf on each lens which is in production, showing all details of the lens, including a sectional view to reveal the optical layout).

I may confirm that the 4/35 - 70 has one aspherical lens element. It is the second element from the front, and on this element it is the front surface which is aspherical. So there you go, yet another reason to get hold of a copy of that lens!

Cheers,

Andy

Edited May 13, 2022 by wizard
typo correction

[John Robinson]

On 5/12/2022 at 12:51 AM, pridbor said:

I don't have any ROM lenses, so I figured that this might be a good first one?  I might as well ask if this lens is worth double or triple the price of the "equivalent" 35-70mm f3.5 non-ROM lens?

What a lens is "worth" is a complicated question.  If you just want to find out what it is like to use a zoom on the R9, either of the cheaper options (rebadged Sigma or rebadged Minolta) will give you that experience if the Vario-Elmar-R 4/35-70 is just too hard to find and/or expensive.  On the other hand, the Leica R lenses seem to hold their value and even increase in price over time (as they become harder to find) so an investment in the f/4 version is not lost if you decide that zoom is not for you and sell it on.

A summary of the various documents seem to suggest the lenses are good/better/best in that order so nothing suggests results from the good or better lenses will be disappointing, especially on film, which is more forgiving than digital.

On a quick search of the well-known site (not to everyone's taste) I see quite a few Vario-Elmar-R lenses in the range GBP300-800, even a 28-70 ROM 3.5/4.5 for less than GBP400 so it may be there is a bargain out there, depending on which country you are searching in.

 

[jankap]

Leica Wiki writes, that it was manufactured by Kyocera. Of course with a Leica guarantee.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/35mm–70mm_f/4_Vario-Elmar-R

You find the Leica Wiki data going far north 🤤 until above this thread.

Edited May 13, 2022 by jankap

[bherman01545]

Kyocera did an excellent job with these lenses. I believe that they made the lenses for the Contax G system as well as others. They also made the awesome Leica Vario Elmar 80-200F4 R lens (which I happen to own) 

Erwin Puts wrote an article on the Vario-Elmar-R 4/35-70 and stated that it may be as sharp as many of the R Prime Lenses. Even if some of the lenses were made in Japan, Canada, Portugal or Germany, (all lenses were made according to Leica's design and quality standards)

Most were absolutely excellent lenses. Some were even reference lenses for the entire R System.

-Brad

[Shac]

Kyocera also made another fabulous lens for Leica - the 80-200 f4

[AZN]

13 hours ago, wizard said:

found the original Leica pdf on that lens

You can still download this Leica factsheet PDF from Overgaard's website:

https://www.overgaard.dk/pdf/Vario-Elmar-R_35-70_mm_Technical_Data_en.pdf

The diagram in the PDF helpfully labels the aspherical glass element 😃

Edited May 13, 2022 by AZN