Leica M11 – a field report after four months

[Herr Barnack]

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From Stefan Groenveld, here is the English language version of his evaluation of the M11.

Leica M11 – a field report after four months

https://www.stefangroenveld.de/2022/leica-m11-a-field-report-after-four-months/?lang=en

[trickness]

6 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

From Stefan Groenveld, here is the English language version of his evaluation of the M11.

Leica M11 – a field report after four months

https://www.stefangroenveld.de/2022/leica-m11-a-field-report-after-four-months/?lang=en

Sounds like his main positives are abilities to crop and ease of charging. I keep reading these articles hoping I’ll see a compelling argument not to just buy an 10 variant instead - have you gotten an 11 yet, HB?

[Viv]

As a review, neither informative nor useful.

The inept translation does not help.

[Herr Barnack]

3 hours ago, trickness said:

Sounds like his main positives are abilities to crop and ease of charging. I keep reading these articles hoping I’ll see a compelling argument not to just buy an 10 variant instead - have you gotten an 11 yet, HB?

Not yet - still waiting for my name to rise to the top of someone's waiting list.

The M10R is an interesting camera too but for the same price as the M11, I would have a hard time saying no to the M11's upgrades.

I find it interesting/humorous how some people used to bitch about the M cameras not having BSI sensors and now that the M11 has that, it's become a non- issue to the complainers.  Even more interesting/humorous is the undercurrent of thinly veiled contempt for the M11 on this forum, which is dedicated to Leica cameras and lenses.  There's just no making sense of it, but the constant negativity gets old. Very old. 

There are apparently a lot of bitter, negative people out there - even in the Leicaverse.  What a sad way to live the one life we're given.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[trickness]

30 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

Not yet - still waiting for my name to rise to the top of someone's waiting list.

The M10R is an interesting camera too but for the same price as the M11, I would have a hard time saying no to the M11's upgrades.

I find it interesting/humorous how some people used to bitch about the M cameras not having BSI sensors and now that the M11 has that, it's become a non- issue to the complainers.  Even more interesting/humorous is the undercurrent of thinly veiled contempt for the M11 on this forum, which is dedicated to Leica cameras and lenses.  There's just no making sense of it, but the constant negativity gets old. Very old. 

There are apparently a lot of bitter, negative people out there - even in the Leicaverse.  What a sad way to live the one life we're given.

I think it’s much better use of time to be self-critical about our own photographic output, as all of these tools far exceed the limitations of the vast majority of photographers. 

[Photoworks]

39 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

The M10R is an interesting camera too but for the same price as the M11, I would have a hard time saying no to the M11's upgrades.

I find it interesting/humorous how some people used to bitch about the M cameras not having BSI sensors and now that the M11 has that, it's become a non- issue to the complainers.  Even more interesting/humorous is the undercurrent of thinly veiled contempt for the M11 on this forum, which is dedicated to Leica cameras and lenses.  There's just no making sense of it, but the constant negativity gets old. Very old. 

Agree, M11 over M10R every time if you use it to take photos and not just look at it... I have both.

And yes, enjoy life and take the camera everywhere...

[Herr Barnack]

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1 hour ago, trickness said:

I think it’s much better use of time to be self-critical about our own photographic output, as all of these tools far exceed the limitations of the vast majority of photographers. 

You couldn't be more correct.  As Ernst Haas rightly observed:  "There is only you and your camera. The limitations in your photography are in yourself, for what we see is what we are."

We must take personal responsibility for our own photography, which IMHO is what the esteemed Mr. Haas was saying.

 

 

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, trickness said:

...all of these tools far exceed the limitations of the vast majority of photographers. 

Creatively speaking maybe, but not technically speaking.

We still have a long way to go to:

• Capture images with the dynamic range of the human eye and render them in a natural way just as we see it
• Monitors capable of displaying it ^
• Digital paper that can display and distribute it as printed media ^

[Gobert]

That was a long and thorough review.

[trickness]

1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

Creatively speaking maybe, but not technically speaking.

We still have a long way to go to:

• Capture images with the dynamic range of the human eye and render them in a natural way just as we see it
• Monitors capable of displaying it ^
• Digital paper that can display and distribute it as printed media ^

Can’t wait to see the technical pinnacle of dog on couch and beer glass photographs shot at 0.95 with a 200 megapixel camera

Edited May 10, 2022 by trickness

[M11 for me]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb trickness:

. . . all of these tools far exceed the limitations of the vast majority of photographers. 

Great that the two of us - you and me - do not belong to the majority.

[trickness]

2 hours ago, M11 for me said:

Great that the two of us - you and me - do not belong to the majority.

I AM in the majority, really 99.9% of photographers are, whether or not they are self aware enough to realize it.

[THEME]

5 hours ago, hdmesa said:

Creatively speaking maybe, but not technically speaking.

We still have a long way to go to:

• Capture images with the dynamic range of the human eye and render them in a natural way just as we see it
• Monitors capable of displaying it ^
• Digital paper that can display and distribute it as printed media ^

Photography will always be photography. 2-dimensional, a reproduction. You demand a clone of the real thing? It will be something different.

To start with: Every human eye sees differently.

And don't you sometimes miss the grain of film pushed to ISO800, 1600 even? Made some of the best photos.

The more "real" photography becomes, the more sterile photographs risk to be.

[tashley]

9 hours ago, trickness said:

I think it’s much better use of time to be self-critical about our own photographic output, as all of these tools far exceed the limitations of the vast majority of photographers. 

I profoundly disagree with the second part. 

Yes we should be self critical. 

Do these tools far exceed our capabilities? Absolutely not. No way. Real world scenes very often have far more DR than sensors allow. Low light still stretches sensors’ noise abilities. Let’s not even get started on lenses. 

Cameras are not supposed to be an obstacle course but a transparent means of allowing us to get onto screen or print whatever it is that a real world scene evokes in our minds’ eyes. No current camera allows that. The rhetorical approach that says that ‘they’ (the cameras) are > ‘us’ (the photographers) may be superficially attractive but is ultimately untrue. 
 

Discuss. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by tashley

[tashley]

4 hours ago, trickness said:

Can’t wait to see the technical pinnacle of dog on couch and beer glass photographs shot at 0.95 with a 200 megapixel camera

You got three laughs for that and that was three too many. Aunt Sally isn’t a good rhetorical technique. 

[frame-it]

3 minutes ago, tashley said:

a transparent means of allowing us to get onto screen or print whatever it is that a real world scene evokes in our minds’ eyes

+1

[trickness]

44 minutes ago, tashley said:

I profoundly disagree with the second part. 

Yes we should be self critical. 

Do these tools far exceed our capabilities? Absolutely not. No way. Real world scenes very often have far more DR than sensors allow. Low light still stretches sensors’ noise abilities. Let’s not even get started on lenses. 

Cameras are not supposed to be an obstacle course but a transparent means of allowing us to get onto screen or print whatever it is that a real world scene evokes in our minds’ eyes. No current camera allows that. The rhetorical approach that says that ‘they’ (the cameras) are > ‘us’ (the photographers) may be superficially attractive but is ultimately untrue. 
 

Discuss. 

Funny, these limitations never stopped Cartier Bresson from taking a memorable photo back in the 1930s. Or Ralph Gibson in the 70s, etc etc etc.

Technology is a great crutch, but its no substitute for artistry. 

 

[hdmesa]

Baiting with tired, wheezing, staggering, exhaustedly-old arguments. Next.

[Herr Barnack]

Actually, I'm enjoying the way this thread is, uh, "evolving."

The stage is set.  All we need is a couple more snarky remarks and the obligatory dish throwing will commence!  😄

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[frame-it]

8 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

All we need is a couple more snarky remarks

that gang hasn't arrived here yet