Leica SL Lens "Latency" After FW 4 Update

[hdmesa]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 5/10/2022 at 1:33 AM, chrhill said:

Full reset doesn't work for me, maybe a slight improvement but still too much lag when chosing an aperture higher than 2.0 on my SL APO 75mm on a SL2 ans as stated Sigma and Panasonic lenses don't have the shutter lag.

My Sigma 70 Macro Art has the issue.

Edited May 16, 2022 by hdmesa

[SoarFM]

7 hours ago, beewee said:

Glad that you were able to demonstrate the issue at a Leica Store. Hopefully this gets escalated pretty quickly.

They told me they were going to bring it to the attention of John Kreidler, a Leica product specialist here on the East coast. 

[beewee]

1 hour ago, SoarFM said:

They told me they were going to bring it to the attention of John Kreidler, a Leica product specialist here on the East coast. 

That’s good to hear.

[Stuart Richardson]

Leica's customer service at Wetzlar got back to me first thing this morning and wrote to me that they are aware of the issue and will release a new firmware update. They did not specify if it was for the lenses or the camera, or when, but it seems like it is something they are already working on. Hopefully the fix will come quickly.

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[JeffWright]

I was also informed this morning first thing that this is a known issue with the latest firmware update and they are working on a fix.

[1Haufen]

Maybe there should be a warning on the Leica download pages or they should it remove the new Firmware so long.

[chris_tribble]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm afraid this shows how little use my APO lenses are getting at the moment.  The zooms work fine with the new FW and improvements are appreciated - but the 35 and 75 APO are very badly behaved when stopped down.  It really shouldn't have happened!  I'll log the issue with Leica.

 

[Malabito]

How come they haven't even made any public statement and dropped the firmware from the site? or at least add a warning saying if you have apo lenses don't download. Thats not right, given this is a known issue, not something that happens only to some users. I also got an email from them, but this due to me sending them an email....

[trickness]

1 hour ago, Malabito said:

How come they haven't even made any public statement and dropped the firmware from the site? or at least add a warning saying if you have apo lenses don't download. Thats not right, given this is a known issue, not something that happens only to some users. I also got an email from them, but this due to me sending them an email....

Because their customer service is abysmal?

[KenTanaka]

59 minutes ago, Malabito said:

How come they haven't even made any public statement and dropped the firmware from the site? or at least add a warning saying if you have apo lenses don't download. Thats not right, given this is a known issue, not something that happens only to some users. I also got an email from them, but this due to me sending them an email....

That's a fair question.  I expected them to navigate a higher road.  Making a big splash about this issue on mass media might not have been needed.  But communicating through their dealers and this site would have been appropriate.

For me, this was one toke over the line (as the old song sang).  I dived into the SL2 system mainly out of curious boredom during the depths of the pandemic.  It has its good points -- primarily lovely, excellent image rendering at lowish ISOs.  But just not enough for me to adopt as a primary, or even a secondary, system in the real world.  Too big, heavy and bulky.  Too slow.  Too inflexible.  Too quirky.  Terrible price/performance ratio for -me-.  So my SL2 system is heading for sale this week.

[JimKnopf]

right there it is. the system cannot compete in the real world among current competitors. 
the video features are highly praised. the af must always work manually, because a pump occurs permanently. that ignores the needs of the market.

Edited May 17, 2022 by JimKnopf

[beewee]

10 hours ago, Malabito said:

How come they haven't even made any public statement and dropped the firmware from the site? or at least add a warning saying if you have apo lenses don't download. Thats not right, given this is a known issue, not something that happens only to some users. I also got an email from them, but this due to me sending them an email....

In the world of software, there will always be bugs. It’s only a matter of how severe and the breadth of impact to the users. It’s pretty standard that companies will not openly disclose every known bug and draw customer attention to it because:

1. It’s a great way to scare potential buyers away that would otherwise not even notice or be impacted by such a bug
2. It’s a great way to damage the company reputation
3. It is not a safety issue that may endanger someone or put them at risk of imminent danger

 If (3) is a concern, that’s why there are recalls.

The problem we have is not going to kill or endanger anyone and only APO Summicron SL users are impacted. Only Leica knows how many APO Summicron SL lenses are in the wild but how many users need to shoot in low/medium speed continuous burst and have the aperture stopped down below f/5.6 where the shutter lag is more noticeable.

In single shot mode with the aperture stopped down, the lag is noticeable but only really if you’re directly comparing against the SL zoom lenses or are very frequent summicron SL user where you notice the difference right away.

For me, if I didn’t see the issues posted here, I wouldn’t have noticed the issue because I primarily shoot with the 16-35 SL. It may be different if I had the 24 APO SL as I would likely use that lens more regularly than the 28 APO SL but as it stands right now, since the 24 APO SL doesn’t exist, if Leica patched this bug in 4 weeks and if I didn’t go on this forum, I would be none the wiser and it would have not caused my any harm whatsoever to be oblivious to this issue.

Edited May 18, 2022 by beewee

[Malabito]

2 hours ago, beewee said:

In the world of software, there will always be bugs. It’s only a matter of how severe and the breadth of impact to the users. It’s pretty standard that companies will not openly disclose every known bug and draw customer attention to it because:

1. It’s a great way to scare potential buyers away that would otherwise not even notice or be impacted by such a bug
2. It’s a great way to damage the company reputation
3. It is not a safety issue that may endanger someone or put them at risk of imminent danger

 If (3) is a concern, that’s why there are recalls.

The problem we have is not going to kill or endanger anyone and only APO Summicron SL users are impacted. Only Leica knows how many APO Summicron SL lenses are in the wild but how many users need to shoot in low/medium speed continuous burst and have the aperture stopped down below f/5.6 where the shutter lag is more noticeable.

In single shot mode with the aperture stopped down, the lag is noticeable but only really if you’re directly comparing against the SL zoom lenses or are very frequent summicron SL user where you notice the difference right away.

For me, if I didn’t see the issues posted here, I wouldn’t have noticed the issue because I primarily shoot with the 16-35 SL. It may be different if I had the 24 APO SL as I would likely use that lens more regularly than the 28 APO SL but as it stands right now, since the 24 APO SL doesn’t exist, if Leica patched this bug in 4 weeks and if I didn’t go on this forum, I would be none the wiser and it would have not caused my any harm whatsoever to be oblivious to this issue.

I understand the software world, that's what i do for a living. And the way i see it is as follows, (none are good):

- potential buyers? given the current approach seems like they have a very small user base for apo lenses, so they really think they are going to get new users within this period? yes, let's screw existing users so we can get a few new ones.... doesn't really speak highly of the company. They don't need to come up with a press release, just update the firmware description with a warning, or take it down, other companies had issues as well, (not so evident as this one), and they taken the firmware down. 

- this is a very standard user case, shoot a lens with an aperture <> wide open this also speaks terribly about their quality and testing procedures. 

" the lag is noticeable but only really if you’re directly comparing against the SL zoom lenses"

The lag is clearly noticeable, you just need to have shot another camera in the recent 10 years to notice the difference, also don't they have any automatize testing tools? 

Also, once more this shows how leica, as much as i like my leicas, is not a profesional system, are they expecting their user database to shoot only wide open? Yes, you should have a backup, but backups are usually the same system

This could have easily been mitigated with testing, and now that the harm is done, with a basic warning on the firmware page or taking it down. They seem to be wanting to avoid bad publicity and just making things worse, classic let's wait for things to pass, maybe no one will notice.

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Malabito

[LocalHero1953]

33 minutes ago, Malabito said:

In single shot mode with the aperture stopped down, the lag is noticeable but only really if you’re directly comparing against the SL zoom lenses or are very frequent summicron SL user where you notice the difference right away.

 

The lag was very noticeable to me. No way was it acceptable even compared to other older lenses. It was like shooting a M240 with a visoflex.
I reported it via the FOTOS app on Sunday, received an automated acknowledgement immediately, and received an email yesterday saying they were aware of the problem and would issue new firmware.

It was useful to know that the FOTOS app works as a simple way to communicate with customer service. Yes, you could just send them an email directly, but sending via FOTOS attaches technical logs about your camera and phone which must be useful for certain problems (and presumably don't include the contents of your password safe😬).

Edited May 18, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[LocalHero1953]

In the context of the history of Leica bugs and faults, the SL/CL/T series has been fairly problem-free. It worked well at launch, which is remarkable for a new body mount and lens system. With the SL2 there was the battery-level glitch that seemed to affect non-Leica lenses - I guess this was an inadequate specification of the L-mount alliance. And now this. But compared to the long sequence of issues with the M (M8 IR sensitivity, M9 sensor corrosion, M240 freezing, M10 strap lugs), both SL and CL/TL have been pretty good. No, this lag shouldn't have happened, but they've acknowledged the fault and I'm willing to cut them some slack. (As long as the firmware update comes soon.)

[Planetwide]

V3 in the SL2, updated 35 SL cron, no aperture lag.

[lx1713]

I was about to update but good thing I checked in to see the situation. I hope Leica brings us the resolution we need.

[chris_tribble]

Has anyone heard back from Leica on this? I've  not had any response.

?

[Photoworks]

1 minute ago, chris_tribble said:

Has anyone heard back from Leica on this? I've  not had any response.

?

yes, they are working on FW update to fix it

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[chris_tribble]

I hope it comes soon. I was planning to use the 75 for a portrait commission in June…