SL2-S shutter not working when close focusing with LEICA APO-MACRO SUMMARIT S120 2.5 lens

[bencychin]

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Firstly, my SL2-S camera shutter operates without problem when used with all my SL lens, and it also works with my other Leica S system lens S35 2.5 SUMMARIT..  But when used with the S120 SUMMARIT lens, a strange phenomena occurred.  The camera shutter will not fire when I do close focusing distance (less than 1.5 m), but the shutter operates normally when the focus distance is more than 1.5 m.  

The shutter will only operate at all distances when I switched the camera to manual focus mode. In short, the camera & lens AF works the full focusing range from MFD to Infinity but the camera shutter works only at focus distance above about 1.5 m onwards when AF is engaged.  

This S120 lens is non CS version and its motor has been updated.

Perhaps it is time to send it to WETZLAR for checkup?  I just don't want to wait for the long turnaround time if this is normal behaviour for this lens.

Any advice is most appreciated.

 

Benedict Chin

Singapore

[beewee]

Have you tried making sure, when you switch to the S-mount lens, that you only do it while the camera is off? I’ve never used S-mount lenses but I have heard that you’re only suppose to swap S-mount lenses while the SL camera body is off. I’ve never looked into the reason for this but I’m wondering if that could be one of them?

Edited April 30, 2022 by beewee

[bencychin]

7 hours ago, beewee said:

Have you tried making sure, when you switch to the S-mount lens, that you only do it while the camera is off? I’ve never used S-mount lenses but I have heard that you’re only suppose to swap S-mount lenses while the SL camera body is off. I’ve never looked into the reason for this but I’m wondering if that could be one of them?

Hi friend,  Appreciate your sharing of the information.  I did all lens changes with camera body powered off, unless I forget to in rare occasion.  

But your input made me try another parameter, to ensure the composition is not too under-exposed.  Like magic, the shutter now works all the way down to 0..57m MACRO.  Have taken photos between 0.57 to 1.2 m without shutter problem.  So it is stupid me not checking for exceedingly under-exposures that causes the shutter not to operate.

Thanks be to God I save both time and money without the lens visiting Hospital Wetzlar.

Cheers!

 

Benedict

[bencychin]

Sorry to updater the fault return in an intermittent manner.  So it is just something that triggers the shutter not operating when in AF mode but works in Manual focus mode.

Looks like the lens will be flying to be doctored in Wetzler Hospital, resulting in lose of use plus payment of medical bills.  Pray it will be not so costly.

Looking forward to a restored lens.as its MACRO capabilities are just awesome.

 

Benedict

[ImmerDraussen]

Hi Benedict,

I just tried it on my 120mm + SL2-S combo. Same behaviour on close distances
 

If I go on manuell focus and use to joystick to start the AF,  I can release.

 

Andreas

[bencychin]

3 minutes ago, ImmerDraussen said:

Hi Benedict,

I just tried it on my 120mm + SL2-S combo. Same behaviour on close distances
 

If I go on manuell focus and use to joystick to start the AF,  I can release.

 

Andreas

Hi Andreas,

This is important piece of information that you have so kindly shared.  I also have engaged manual mode ,use  joystick to focus, and shutter can work all the time for entire focus range.

So perhaps it is just some firmware connectivity issue between S120 and SL2-S.  My experience is the shutter failure to release is intermittent.  That is why I suspect it is faulty. By the way, it is exactly the same behaviour when I tried on my SL2 earlier (now sold).

When I switched to AF mode, then the shutter will usually works on far distance focusing (usually > 1.5 m) but shutter frequently cannot release when work on close distance (especially < about 0.8 M).  But strangely if I take some photos say at infinity, then immediately switched to close distance, it can work on certain occasions but not every time.

Since you have experienced similar problems, I would visit Leica Customer Care Singapore to discuss with them first.  Will keep you posted on any finding.

 

Thank you and stay safe.

Benedict

 

[ImmerDraussen]

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Hi Benedict,

it‘s no big issue for me. However, it would be good to understand why this happens.

Please keep me in the loop.

Andreas

[Stuart Richardson]

I wonder if there is intermittent loss of contact in the electrical contacts...possibly worsened at close focus because the lens lengthens and perhaps increases the leverage on the mount. I have this lens and combo, but I have not noticed any problems. That said, I am almost always in MF in macro mode. But it has focused fine when using back button focus.

[Sailronin]

Just tested my 120 macro S on the SL2-S and no problem with shutter at minimum focus distance, as long as focus can lock.  Won't fire if not in focus (as normal). Using back button focus.

[bencychin]

9 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I wonder if there is intermittent loss of contact in the electrical contacts...possibly worsened at close focus because the lens lengthens and perhaps increases the leverage on the mount. I have this lens and combo, but I have not noticed any problems. That said, I am almost always in MF in macro mode. But it has focused fine when using back button focus.

Hi Stuart,

Indeed you may be right on weak electronic contacts, especially when the lens is extended in Macro mode. The focusing is not the issue for me, but that the shutter cannot be released in AF mode when I do close focus range (Most of the time, sometimes succeed).  But the strange thing is when in manual focus mode, I use back button focus and shutter has no release problem every time.

BTW I just cleaned the lens contacts but not solving the problem.  

I have used the same camera and S-L Adaptor combo with S35 Summarit and no problem encountered. So it should be an issue related to the S120 lens.

 

Benedict.

[bencychin]

7 hours ago, Sailronin said:

Just tested my 120 macro S on the SL2-S and no problem with shutter at minimum focus distance, as long as focus can lock.  Won't fire if not in focus (as normal). Using back button focus.

The focus is in, (turn green) but the shutter cannot release most of the time under close focus if I am in AF mode.  If I am in manual focus mode, backbitten focus, turn green, and shutter release no issue.

[Stuart Richardson]

Hi Benedict,

Is there a particular reason you need it to be in AFs? Of course the lens should work properly, but if it were me, I think I would just stick with using back button focus. AF is generally not very helpful in macro mode because it is difficult to achieve focus at times without the lens racking in and out a lot. My current guess is that if the lens works in MF mode, that this is probably more related to the lens not thinking it has achieved focus, and preventing the shutter from firing. This could be happening due to the extremely shallow depth of field when you are in the close range. When you are in MF mode, of course it will fire regardless, which is why one may work and not the other. Have you tried AFC? Just curious. My suspicion is that there might not be anything for Leica to fix in the lens...that this might be a "feature" not a "problem"....one that they cannot fix without adjusting the AF algorithm for all cameras.

[bencychin]

3 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Hi Benedict,

Is there a particular reason you need it to be in AFs? Of course the lens should work properly, but if it were me, I think I would just stick with using back button focus. AF is generally not very helpful in macro mode because it is difficult to achieve focus at times without the lens racking in and out a lot. My current guess is that if the lens works in MF mode, that this is probably more related to the lens not thinking it has achieved focus, and preventing the shutter from firing. This could be happening due to the extremely shallow depth of field when you are in the close range. When you are in MF mode, of course it will fire regardless, which is why one may work and not the other. Have you tried AFC? Just curious. My suspicion is that there might not be anything for Leica to fix in the lens...that this might be a "feature" not a "problem"....one that they cannot fix without adjusting the AF algorithm for all cameras.

Hi Stuart,

You have nicely summarised the issue of my frustration, that is shutter release not always working whilst in AF mode doing close range focus.Macro shots.  I have beam switching to manual focus mode when I do Macro and use back button to assist.  There is no particular advantage of using AF mode other than ease of using same mode for all focus range.

Your comment on the lens thinking it is not in focus due to very shallow depth of field is very plausible as it explains why certain times the shutter do work (when it is really in focus).  So I will test it out this week under AFC and AFS mode PLUS using manual focus override to achieve pin point focus in Macro to test if the shutter do release.

When I next visit the CS Leica to collect my other lens (probably this or next week), I will discuss with their people on the concept and problems of shutter release.Will share their views with all of you kind people.

 

Thanks for sharing your good observation and logic.

Benedict

[beewee]

3 hours ago, bencychin said:

Hi Stuart,

You have nicely summarised the issue of my frustration, that is shutter release not always working whilst in AF mode doing close range focus.Macro shots.  I have beam switching to manual focus mode when I do Macro and use back button to assist.  There is no particular advantage of using AF mode other than ease of using same mode for all focus range.

Your comment on the lens thinking it is not in focus due to very shallow depth of field is very plausible as it explains why certain times the shutter do work (when it is really in focus).  So I will test it out this week under AFC and AFS mode PLUS using manual focus override to achieve pin point focus in Macro to test if the shutter do release.

When I next visit the CS Leica to collect my other lens (probably this or next week), I will discuss with their people on the concept and problems of shutter release.Will share their views with all of you kind people.

 

Thanks for sharing your good observation and logic.

Benedict

If this is AF-s specific, the differences in behaviour from others here might be due to one or more of the following:

• Brightness of the area that the AF is trying lock onto - darker areas will be more challenging
• AF area size - bigger area means more details to lock onto
• AF subject contrast/details/texture or lack thereof - more contrast/details/textures mean easier to lock onto
• Stability of camera - handholding, especially with darker and lower contrast AF subjects may cause the camera to have a harder time locking on

[bencychin]

Hi all fellow SL2`S users,

 

Leica Singapore did not find any fault with my S120 Macro lens.  They tested it at the service centre and advised the focus locking in the Macro range is to be expected, being slower and very sensitive as depth of field can be very thin.  They felt the lens behaviour is normal as it can lock focus when on longer focus range typically >1.2M.

So I have not send in the lens as I can still use M focus mode, back button and manual fine tune focus to take very sharp Macro photos.  Perhaps if the lens start to misbehave in other ways I then send in for full checkup.  The waiting time and cost don't justify just to be sure.

 

Thanks again for all your valuable feedback which are helpful to me.

 

Benedict

[beewee]

Just another option for you, in terms of macro focusing, it’s often easier to just set focus distance to pre-determined value and then do the actual focusing by moving the camera back and forth from the subject.

[lx1713]

On 5/13/2022 at 10:26 AM, bencychin said:

Hi all fellow SL2`S users,

 

Leica Singapore did not find any fault with my S120 Macro lens.  They tested it at the service centre and advised the focus locking in the Macro range is to be expected, being slower and very sensitive as depth of field can be very thin.  They felt the lens behaviour is normal as it can lock focus when on longer focus range typically >1.2M.

So I have not send in the lens as I can still use M focus mode, back button and manual fine tune focus to take very sharp Macro photos.  Perhaps if the lens start to misbehave in other ways I then send in for full checkup.  The waiting time and cost don't justify just to be sure.

 

Thanks again for all your valuable feedback which are helpful to me.

 

Benedict

Hi Benedict,

I'm able to shoot in AF-S mode with the Apo Macro 120mm. Images are sharp at focus point. As an added test, I switch on the Pre Focus feature. It worked fine so far.

I did have some quirky behaviour though. The focus target jumps about occasionally.

I will keep an eye out for any issues that might turned up.

Thanks for informing this forum. Appreciate it.

Alex