Minolta M-Rokkor 90mm on M3

[gdallas]

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I am thinking about getting one of these lenses for my M3. A low cost trial of 90mm.  But I have heard that there is more than one version of the lens out there, and that not all will be compatible with my camera body.

I'll almost certainly buy on line so I will not be able to offer the lens up to try it out before buying.

Can anyone help me identify the correct version?

Thank you

 

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[jankap]

This as a start: https://phillipreeve.net/blog/review-minolta-m-rokkor-90mm-4-0/

[adan]

So far as I know, all versions of the 90mm for the CL cameras (Leica or Minolta) are equally compatible with M cameras - for a given value of "compatible." They should not jam or otherwise be unmountable, and they should focus at infinity when set to the infinity hard-stop.

The issue is that, to save money on these "discount lenses", and for compactness, the rangefinder cam in all of them (and the 40mm Summicron-C/Rokkor-M) was not driven in and out by an additional internal helix or thread (as M lenses are). And was not a flat surface (also as M lenses are).

Instead, the cam surface itself was machined as a cylindrical "ramp," which required the contact roller in the camera to be perfectly and consistently centered left and right to contact the lens cam in exactly the right spot and transfer the lens movement and cam position accurately to the rangefinder.

In other words (or ideograms)...... M lens cam = ////||• ... Leica C or M-Rokkor lens cam = |/•

(where • is the camera's RF roller, and up/down = right/left)

So it is more a question of whether a specific M camera body is compatible with the CL cams/lenses, rather than the other way around.

And one would have to test the 90 on a given M3 body to know if that body's roller positioning can focus those lenses precisely (the problem is neglible with the 40mm, since it has more DoF at most distances, to cover small distance-precision errors).

From: https://gear.vogelius.se/-reviews/leica-elmar-c-90/index.html

Quote

The focusing cam of the Summicron-C and Elmarit-C are slightly different than normal M-mount lenses, with a sloped profile instead of a perpendicular one. According to Leica this could affect focus accuracy on M cameras. Many speculate that this statement was made to push people towards getting the more expensive lenses instead of the C-variations. I’ve seen reports that Leica changed the spec on the focus roller on the M6 and newer cameras, ensuring that the roller is always centred and resulting in accurate focus despite the sloped cam. I’ve not had any issues with focus accuracy.

 

[gdallas]

Thank you Adan. This is really helpful

 

[grahamc]

I have one of these and find it great - very compatible with M10 and M6, not sure how helpful that is for M3 but hopefully a little  

Edited April 30, 2022 by grahamc

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Another 90 to look at is the Elmarit f2.8 not the Elmarit-M or the "thin" tele-Elmar. Both are really good lenses. 

[lct]

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Elmar-C 90/4 and Rokkor 90/4 lenses for Minolta CL are from the seventies and are not the same lenses as the Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CLE from the eighties which has a normal focus cam and no compatibility issue with M cameras. Same for the Rokkor 40/2 for Minolta CLE BTW. The Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CLE is one of my best 90mm lenses and does not suffer from the same flare issues as Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 and Elmar-C 90/4 to a lesser extent. Just check if the lens requires some calibration on your M3. Mine does not and works fine on current digital M and CL bodies as well. Warmly recommended.

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[gdallas]

7 hours ago, lct said:

Elmar-C 90/4 and Rokkor 90/4 lenses for Minolta CL are from the seventies and are not the same lenses as the Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CLE from the eighties which has a normal focus cam and no compatibility issue with M cameras. Same for the Rokkor 40/2 for Minolta CLE BTW. The Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CLE is one of my best 90mm lenses and does not suffer from the same flare issues as Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 and Elmar-C 90/4 to a lesser extent. Just check if the lens requires some calibration on your M3. Mine does not and works fine on current digital M and CL bodies as well. Warmly recommended.

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Thank you very much. This is I think what I had heard about. 
The question now is : what’s the best way to tell the difference between a 1970s Rokkor 90/4 and a lens from the 1980s?

I am unlikely to be able to inspect any potential purchases physically.  Can serial numbers help, maybe?

 

[lct]

The Rokkor 90/4 for Minolta CL is just a clone of the Elmar-C 90/4 with different filters (40.5mm vs Series 5.5). Easy way to recognize it is the "Leitz" and "made in Germany" engravings you can see below.

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[grahamc]

4 hours ago, gdallas said:

Thank you very much. This is I think what I had heard about. 
The question now is : what’s the best way to tell the difference between a 1970s Rokkor 90/4 and a lens from the 1980s?

I am unlikely to be able to inspect any potential purchases physically.  Can serial numbers help, maybe?

 

As @lcthas pointed out the Rokkors made for Cl will say "Made by Leit' (in the rim of the glass, as above) .  However, the CLE ones - the one you need - will say only 'Minolta' with no mention of Leitz, and no serial number in this location.  ( The serial number of the CLE version is on the barrel at the bottom near the mount) 

I'd highly recommend this lens.  I like light lenses so I bought it and the 90mm Leica 'thin' Tele-Elmarit to see how I liked them.  The Rokkor is my favourite and was almost a third of the price of the tele-Elmarit. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by grahamc

[grahamc]

Like this , but note that the 'Japan' writing at the top is from the filter I have on, it's not on the lens.  Serial number location of CLE version is highlighted. 

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[grahamc]

Kodak Portra & 90:4 Rokkor . One of the few shots I've taken but only because I don't use 90mm !  It's great for the price and to keep around for when / if needed.  I will be selling the thin T:E .

As others pointed out before I bought it, presuming good light f4 is perfectly OK for a 90mm because the focal length also takes care of compression .  

Happy customer here @ $200 ish USD! 

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Edited May 3, 2022 by grahamc

[lct]

Made in Japan in engraved at the bottom of the CLE version.

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[gdallas]

Thank you all very,  very much. Super helpful. What a good forum!

 

[DoubleE]

I just purchased one of the CLE versions of this lens on eBAy.  $200 shipped from Japan for one that looks pretty much new (from photos).  This thread gave me the confidence to identify the correct version and give it a try.  If it doesn't focus at infinity on my two film M bodies, I'm not out much money, but it sounds like I'll be ok.  Thank you Ict and grahamc for your clear descriptions and photos.  I'm not a huge 90mm user, so have been hesitating to invest in a Tele-Elmarit M, but a reasonably light and compact 90 is nice to have in the bag.  BTW, years ago I owned the German made Leitz M-Rokkor 90 and it happened to work fine on the M3 I had at the time.