How long do we expect SL lenses to "live?"

[tedd]

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Hey gang,

Title says it all really. When I first got into photography (2010) I started with a Canon EF 50mm 1.8. After about three years, it started to develop a grinding noise when focusing and eventually jammed up and stopped focusing altogether. I've never had an issue with a lens since, but it does make me wonder. 

Obviously you're not going to get 50 years like you might an M lens, but how long should a well-made, professional quality autofocus lens usually last if taken care of and only used casually? 

Keen to hear your thoughts! 

[jplomley]

Hmm, the S-line AF fiasco comes to mind. Hopefully Leica learned and will not be repeated. I like to think the Leica SL lenses are built to a higher standard to ensure longevity greater than the other plastic fantastic brands, but I'm not so sure anymore.

[Pintpot]

Interesting question, and it brings up a secondary point - cameras like Dlux & Vlux, indeed all cameras if that ilk, failure of autofocus  will jigger them altogether.

[tedd]

1 hour ago, jplomley said:

Hmm, the S-line AF fiasco comes to mind. Hopefully Leica learned and will not be repeated. I like to think the Leica SL lenses are built to a higher standard to ensure longevity greater than the other plastic fantastic brands, but I'm not so sure anymore.

I wasn't aware of that. Will do a little research, thanks. I've been considering a 50 Cron APO SL lately, but if it "only" lasts ten years before a servo goes that is quite an expensive lens compared to my 50 Lux-M ASPH which I expect to see me out!

1 hour ago, Pintpot said:

Interesting question, and it brings up a secondary point - cameras like Dlux & Vlux, indeed all cameras if that ilk, failure of autofocus  will jigger them altogether.

Yes indeed. Same thing with the autofocus lenses, since the manual focus option is by-wire (not to mention aperture control). 

[davidmknoble]

One thing we know about the SL lenses is that they typically focus by moving two small lenses.  I think that in itself helps the lens last longer.  Like any electronics, it will have a shorter life than brass tubes and screws with glass lenses in them.

The S lenses had a motor failure, but Leica spent a lot of money helping everyone get the right motors in the lenses.  What I like about the S lenses is that they have a mechanical clutch on the focusing.  If the focus motor were to go out, I would guess I could still focus the lens manually.  The SL lenses are magnetic and probably require the focus motor to work.

The SL system came out a good while ago, and the 24-90 zoom still gets a good used price and works well.  I’d expect more than 10 years.

[Pelu2010]

Maybe better to ask someone of the engineer’s at leica. If they plan to use these lenses until 200 mpx then I would assume that they last longer than 10 years. I have canon lenses from 1993 which are still working and I have no failure there.  

[Stuart Richardson]

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EF mount came out in 1987 and many of the lenses are still going strong. I see no reason why the SL lenses wouldn't be able to do the same thing. My guess would be more on the order of 25-30 years or more. I think the real question is not about how long they last, but how long they will be repairable. In older electronic cameras, the issue seems to be about components which degrade over time cannot be replaced because of lack of spare parts. Those kind of electrical failures seem to take decades to occur. My Hexar AF had an issue like this, and it was made in 1993. So about 30 years after it was built. Leica will probably stop repairing them after about 10 years after they are discontinued. I think this issue has its importance, but I think the quality and performance of the SL lenses is a more important factor in choosing them than whether they will last another 50 years. I think there is no question that they will last longer than 10 years.

Edited April 27, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[Anbaric]

I think this sort of thing is impossible to predict, unless some early problems suggest a design flaw. Some of Nikon's (very well built) first generation AF-S lenses, targeted at professionals, had motors where failure wasn't uncommon around a decade after they were made. With reasonable care a manual focus lens may be a lifetime investment, but I wouldn't assume that about anything with its own electronics, simply because spares won't be available indefinitely once it goes out of production. Replacement sensors for the M9 series cameras were no longer available about 5 years after the last of them, the M-E Typ 220, was discontinued. One of the M6-TTL circuit boards could no longer be replaced about 15 years after it went out of production.

[tom0511]

I believe for the price it should live lon, and even more important, Leica should offer service and spre parts for a long time.

I say at least next 20-25 years.

[BernardC]

10 hours ago, tedd said:

I wasn't aware of that. Will do a little research, thanks.

The S-lens issue was resolved, and it really doesn't affect long-term durability. The issue was caused by a gear in the AF system that could degrade and fail over time. That part was upgraded, and Leica will fix any affected lens for a nominal fee (less than the cost of a normal lens service).

Let's not forget in this discussion that mechanical lenses also become irreparable due to lack of parts. I don't want to single-out any particular brand, but people here have complained about R lenses that Leica can no longer fix, and most non-current Zeiss lenses aren't supported anymore. The situation is the same or worse for non-German lenses.

The good news is that modern lenses are self-calibrating to a large extent, and electronics can potentially last for decades with little degradation. Even when they do fail, the issue is often caused by connectors, circuit traces, and capacitors, rather than chips and motors. This means that someone with circuit-tracing and micro-soldering skills can often bring them back to life.

[robb]

I am hopeful that Leica have fixed their growing pains with the AF functions on the lenses.  My only worry had been that because the focusing systems in the SL are not linked to a hard touch clutch that there may be similar issues to repair later and lack of parts like the early canon lenses like the ef 200 f 1.8 or 85 1.2…

we’ll see.  
Robb

[Pelu2010]

18 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

EF mount came out in 1987 and many of the lenses are still going strong. I see no reason why the SL lenses wouldn't be able to do the same thing. My guess would be more on the order of 25-30 years or more. I think the real question is not about how long they last, but how long they will be repairable. In older electronic cameras, the issue seems to be about components which degrade over time cannot be replaced because of lack of spare parts. Those kind of electrical failures seem to take decades to occur. My Hexar AF had an issue like this, and it was made in 1993. So about 30 years after it was built. Leica will probably stop repairing them after about 10 years after they are discontinued. I think this issue has its importance, but I think the quality and performance of the SL lenses is a more important factor in choosing them than whether they will last another 50 years. I think there is no question that they will last longer than 10 years.

I just repaired my 100 mm EF Macro from 1994. And here in Hamburg there is a specialist that repairs any kind of lenses. Old , new, the even can produce their own spare parts. And with the 3 printers evolving I would guess that a new market is going to build if Leica would ever think of not repairing the lenses they produce. There is so much knowledge out there that I can’t imagine that we lose this ability. If you treat the lens ok then it will survive you and still make nice pictures of the world. Maybe a little hotter world then. Lets hope for the best. The market for repairing cameras will increase. Like for watches too. 

[Reddy]

I'm only a little annoyed that the SL lenses don't have the aperture control,  like the Leica R lenses which you can still use it on other system. I hope SL mount will last more than 30 years, otherwise I don't know what adaptor can be used with other new system, even the SL lenses are still in working order, but no SL body for it in the future. Especially the sensor is a lot closer to the lens already. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Reddy

[Jeff S]

On 4/26/2022 at 10:39 PM, davidmknoble said:

 

The S lenses had a motor failure, but Leica spent a lot of money helping everyone get the right motors in the lenses.  What I like about the S lenses is that they have a mechanical clutch on the focusing.  If the focus motor were to go out, I would guess I could still focus the lens manually.  The SL lenses are magnetic and probably require the focus motor to work.

 

Experiences varied based on forum reports; some AF motor failures also precluded use of MF; for others MF was still possible. In the US, some waited 6 months or more for repairs, while those in other locations received better turnaround.  A policy was ultimately developed for repairs, but not as quickly or publicly as was the case with M issues like M9 sensor corrosion, which prompted posts from Leica execs here on the forum explaining the issue, apologizing and issuing a policy.  The M customers evidently speak louder and command more communications than the S users.  It remains to be seen how the SL system customers would fare under similar circumstances; let’s hope we don’t need to find out. 
 

Jeff

[justru49]

There are some Peter Karbe lens videos. In one of those he was asked for this. He guessed that they should last at least 20 years. But nobody knows, as there is some electronic inside. For me the most important fact is, that all these modern lenses (not only the Leicas) won't play without the right firmware....

As there is wether aperture control nor focusing without a matching body, they are not that future proof, as most of us might expect 😟

[cnguyen]

As long as they being serviced by Leica USA - I'm good to go.