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M8 or R-D1?

super7668

By super7668
in Leica M8 / Leica M8.2

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Joe Mondello

Joe Mondello

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Hi,

My first post here. :D

I'm thinking about switch from D70 to DRF. Love the compact size and outstanding Leica lenses. However while compare the only two DRF in the world, it's quite difficult to choose from:

I love the design of R-D1, like view finder, the classic design, but there's no much point to get a discontinued DC with no support and no future, and poor 6M CCD; Despite the pricey of M8, it can't even change WB without LCD, which I can do almost all setting in my D70 without turn on my LCD.

I know nothing is perfect, but I might expect more from Leica. Back to the topic, if I want to get one now, which one should I get? Or is there any news about new DRF from other company soon?

 

Thanks for any input.;)

 

"No support and no future" Epson has committed to supporting the R-D1 for the next 6 years.

 

I disagree about the "poor 6M CCD" I think the images from the R-D1 are, well, delicious.

 

The M8 is about to go up in price somewhat dramatically on the first of October (in the US) this will likely keep the R-D1's value high for a while longer yet.

 

The M8 is the better camera, I have both, I hardly touch the R-D1, but if I didn't have an M8 I'd still be using the R-D1 in preference to other cameras.

 

Bottom line: the R-D1 is a terrific dRF and well worth consideration, especially if the M8 is too dear at this time.

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lct

lct

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...the leica elmarit 28 asph looked like a bad lens on the RD1: soft corners and heavy vignetting--which can only be corrected via software at the expense of extra noise/texture in the corrected area--on the M8 its' like a different lens...

The Elmarit 28/2.8 asph is not the easiest 28 to use with the R-D1 due to its high contrast but it remains a great lens on this body IMHO.

 

Has a bit of learning curve of course but vignetting is quite bearable at 200 iso with the Epson raw converter. Here at f/8, FF & 100% crop, no filter:

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2803-afterweb.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2803-after_crop03web.jpg

 

Noise and softness are higher in the corners at 400 iso but they prove hardly visible on A4 prints generally (f/8, FF & 100% crops, Leica UV/IR filter):

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN3108-afterweb.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN3108-aftercropweb.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN3108-aftercropweb02.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN3108-aftercropweb03.jpg

 

Quite happy to do pics like this with that 'bad lens' personally (200 iso, f/8, yellow filter):

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2814-afterweb.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2814-after_crop01web.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2814-after_crop02web.jpg

 

Larger files:

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2803-after.jpg (1 MB)

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN3108-after.jpg (1.5 MB)

http://tinyurl.com/rv7w/EPSN2814-after.jpg (2 MB)

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Piers

Piers

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Hi Ict--thanks for going to all the trouble wth your images. Clearly you've come to an accommodation with the shortcomings of the RD1--well done you.

 

As I said in another thread, I was so disconcerted with the lens perforamnce (bought the 28 and Rd1 together) I complained to Leica UK, where Nobby Clarke immediately asked what camera, like he'd expected the answer already--promised improved performance with M8 (microlenses at edges of sensor?, onboard software), which I found out to be true the hard way, losing 60% of the RD1 value in PX for the M8...

 

Best,

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lct

lct

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The Epson raw converter does the same work as the Leica firmware as far as vignette correction i guess but the microlenses of the M8 look more effective obviously.

According to Chasseur d'Images the 28/2.8 asph does not vignette at all on the M8. They did not test it without correction though but the (uncoded) CZ 28/2.8 vignettes at 0.2 - 0.3 EV only on the M8 which tends to prove that Leica did a great job with microlenses actually.

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sean_reid

sean_reid

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I have some fairly extensive comparisons of the M8 and the R-D1 in my first two M8 reviews. There are also other articles on that site that relate to both cameras. I figured someone else on the forum might have mentioned this but, since no one has yet, I will.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Piers

Piers

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I have some fairly extensive comparisons of the M8 and the R-D1 and my first two M8 reviews. There are also other articles on that site that relate to both cameras. I figured someone else on the forum might have mentioned this but, since no one has yet, I will.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Your modesty becomes you well

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Gid

Gid

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I found the RD1s a real disappointment in all except its design and traditional feel in the hand--so if you want to look at it/fondle it rather than use it, get RD1s. If it's excellent image making you want, as long as the M8 is on the market, you will feel you made the wrong decision and end up trading up to M8, taking a hit from wasting the money on the RD1 in the first place.

 

As I've noted elsewhere on this forum, the leica elmarit 28 asph looked like a bad lens on the RD1: soft corners and heavy vignetting--which can only be corrected via software at the expense of extra noise/texture in the corrected area--on the M8 its' like a different lens.

 

The RD1 sensor created a block like pixeleation on the boundary between overexposed highlights and normally exposed areas that was perceptible in an A4 print--I never saw anything like this on the Nikon D70 I had, and the D100 and 200 that I still have.

 

The epson software performed as claimed but produced noisier images than ACR; the colour filtered BW effect settings were particularly noisy and had little more that novelty value except for web or v small prints.

 

Good luck...

 

I don't have the Elmarit 28 so can't comment. As to your other assertions I can say with confidence that I haven't come across the problems you have noted. I get consistently better images from the RD1 using the Epson Raw software than ACR, particularly B&W. At A3/A3+ there is very little difference between the RD1 and the M8 (I have both and use both, so I know what I am talking about). I respectfully suggest you may have had a faulty RD1 - it uses the same sensor as the D100.

 

Gid

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Olsen

Olsen

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Hi,

My first post here. :D

I'm thinking about switch from D70 to DRF. Love the compact size and outstanding Leica lenses. However while compare the only two DRF in the world, it's quite difficult to choose from:

I love the design of R-D1, like view finder, the classic design, but there's no much point to get a discontinued DC with no support and no future, and poor 6M CCD; Despite the pricey of M8, it can't even change WB without LCD, which I can do almost all setting in my D70 without turn on my LCD.

I know nothing is perfect, but I might expect more from Leica. Back to the topic, if I want to get one now, which one should I get? Or is there any news about new DRF from other company soon?

 

Thanks for any input.;)

 

Go for the M8!

 

- Crop factor is far less

- Resolution is better

- Service backing is better

- M8 is more modern

 

Strike a deal fast and avoid the price increase.

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Hacker

Hacker

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The UV/IR situation on the RD1 is only very slightly less than on the M8.....:confused:

 

Most cameras have IR issues to a certain extent, even the Canon 5D. However, I do not think there are issues with filter supplies for example. For example, what is the use of the WATE when there is no E49 filter available (with John Milich adapter)?

 

Leica M8 Review: 15. Photographic tests: Digital Photography Review

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tbarker13

tbarker13

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I got started in digital photography with an R-D1. I loved that camera. But I ended up selling it and buying an M8 when they came out. There are certain features (crop factor being a major one) that I preferred with the Leica. It was also a pretty big turn-off when the R-D1 was discontinued.

Still, I think the epson is a nice little camera that you can find for a third the cost of an M8. But if the money is not an issue, I'd go with the M8.

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Hacker

Hacker

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If you use a third-party adapter you can hardly blame Leica for not supplying the filter. Messrs B&W or Heliopan will be happy to sell you one.....

 

I have the 75AA also, but no E49 filter. For the WATE, I understand that only Leica gives acceptable results.

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Hacker

Hacker

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I think the Heliopan is rather close to the Leica from my experience with the 15 CV, but I'm sure a WATE owner can shed light on this.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/20384-wate-filtered-7.html

 

Also, if Leica would only do things better than providing a step up ring for the WATE filter and at the expense of the lens hood. John's stuff rock big time.

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