Help! First Leica (M3), shutter problem

[AardvarkAdventure]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Hey everybody- new to Leica and new here, too. I lucked into an M3 the other day (only one owner before me!); I don't think it had been used in many years but, amazingly, most things seem to be in working order. One strange problem that I can't find any results for when searching, though:

Randomly, but almost always at slow speeds, the shutter button behaves a bit like the camera is in bulb mode. That is, while the button is pressed, the shutter will stay open almost indefinitely (at least as long as the selected speed, but it can be extended...kind of like a half-bulb mode). 

I'll probably send the camera out soon, anyway, but I am somewhat mechanically inclined and hoping to use the camera a bit before giving it up for a few weeks (months?).

Any insight is greatly appreciated. 👍

Edited April 11, 2022 by AardvarkAdventure
Mistake

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Topsy]

Hi and welcome to the forum. When I got my M2 it was the same story (slightly different issue I had inconsistend exposures) it hadn't been used for a long time. I sent it off for a CLA and that sorted the problem. It appears that if they are not used the lubrication dries up/cingeals and affects the free running of the shutter curtains. Hope you get it sorted.

[105012]

This early double stroke M3 (serial <= 782,000) deserves a CLA, if it has not had one in the last couple of decades (as seems likely from your description).

[AardvarkAdventure]

1 hour ago, Topsy said:

Hi and welcome to the forum. When I got my M2 it was the same story...

Ok, great! It's probably best that I don't open it up myself, anyway, haha. 

[AardvarkAdventure]

1 hour ago, 105012 said:

This early double stroke M3 (serial <= 782,000) deserves a CLA, if it has not had one in the last couple of decades (as seems likely from your description).

Definitely. I found it pretty remarkable how quickly [almost] everything came back to life. I suppose that's a testament to the quality of the original build. The two lenses that came with the camera - both from the '50s - were initially seized up, but after a minute of forceful twisting and turning, they feel better than most modern lenses I've handled. I was shocked that the self timer even works, something a lot of SLRs from the 80s can't seem to manage. 

What's the significance of the sub-782k cameras? Is that when they switched to single stroke?

Edited April 11, 2022 by AardvarkAdventure
Question

[madNbad]

You have a early production camera before Leica added the frame light preview lever. If the double stroke mechanism is still in good shape, a good cleaning and lubrication will be sufficient. It’s when the mechanism is worn, there are no longer any double stroke parts, it would be converted to a single stroke. It also should have a glass pressure plate. Looks like you got a pretty good deal. Spend the money to have it cleaned up and enjoy it. Then you can start posting in “I like film”. Welcome to the forum.

[105012]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

11 hours ago, AardvarkAdventure said:

...

What's the significance of the sub-782k cameras? Is that when they switched to single stroke?

 

No, the switch to single stroke was at 919,251. The first single stroke M3's (up to 963,000) retained the silent spring return mechanism of the double stroke M3's (although had a host of additional changes) and are highly sought after in Japan.

On the sub 782k serials, these are the earliest and vary in many details from later M3's. One can identify batches, like < 703k, < 782k, < 785k, < 844k, < 854k, < 919k, < 950k, < 963k... in which changes in many details occurred.

[AardvarkAdventure]

8 minutes ago, 105012 said:

No, the switch to single stroke was at...

Cool, very interesting. 👍

[davidmknoble]

@AardvarkAdventure, the other thing to note about the M3 (and other M film bodies) is that different shutter speed ranges engage different timing mechanisms.  So the slow speeds use a different timing mechanism than higher speeds.  It makes perfect sense that a range of slower speeds has an issue but not higher speeds, which are used more frequently (probably).

I have owned a variety of M3’s and M3’s and a CLA will not only lubricate the mechanism, but also adjust the timing of the shutter speeds to tolerance and review the shutter curtain for any problems.  It’s kind of like a car that needs an oil change, but the spark plugs aren’t quite firing right and the brake shoes are really worn - worth an overhaul.

I know the waiting stinks, but in the end it is really worth it.  IMHO.

[AardvarkAdventure]

I was actually able to resolve this problem by adjusting/balancing the tensions of the shutter curtain springs! 

The camera will be sent out, still, since it's likely been decades since it's been serviced (if ever), but it is truly amazing that something so old could be working so well, in my opinion. 

[TomB_tx]

Good idea to send it off for service, as the spring tension is never the problem. but adjusting it can compensate ( for a while) for the friction change of dried lubricants.

[davidmknoble]

@AardvarkAdventure in re-reading this I also noted your comment about the lenses.  If the glass is in good shape, and they were seized when you got them, then some of the lubricant hardened, which means you probably have solid pieces or power floating around inside.  This can eventually cause some internal glass problems.

I recommend you consider getting the lenses a CLA as well.  They will probably last a lot longer and focusing with the rangefinder will be better calibrated.

Just a thought.