Adding modern 35mm to balance my stable?

[bdolzani]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm inviting help with my angsty indecision: 

I've always gravitated towards vintage lenses, mostly on film M's. Yet I now have the 24mm Elmarit which is very modern (ASPH obviously) compared to every other lens I own. It's the most modern in fact, and so so sharp compared to everything else. I do shoot an M240 as well.

I love the 35mm FL. I have the 3.5cm summaron f/3.5 and the 35mm summicron v2. 

I wonder if I should be tempted to balance my set with an 11879 ASPH, and possibly sell the v2 summicron.

I love, love the 3.5cm Summaron on B&W film. That's pretty much my style. However having a modern F2 might be nice?

I'm sure I would miss the v2, would I?

There would be a slight chance I could keep everything...and just add a 35 ASPH...however I'm pondering if I'd like the extremes of the Summaron and the ASPH, and not have a 'middle ground' like the v2.

My lens stable is:

24mm Elmarit 2.8 ASPH

3.5cm Summaron 3.5

35mm summicron v2

5cm Elmar 2.8 collapsible (another favorite)

50mm Summicron v5

90mm Summicron (1976)

90mm tele-elmarit 2.8

Thoughts?

Edited March 30, 2022 by bdolzani

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[bdolzani]

Yes these kinds of threads are/can be silly. I know they are not uncommon:

I guess I'm just looking for a little conversation to get me out of my head...

If I didn't have the darn 24 ASPH, this all would not be a problem (if Woody had gone to the police...)

brian 

[lct]

32 minutes ago, bdolzani said:

I'm sure I would miss the v2, would I?

You would miss it soon or late for shooting people i suspect. I like much my Summicron 35/2 asph v1 but i feel it too harsh for less than perfect skins so i have kept my old Summicron 35/2 v4 and eventually bought a second copy of it. If you like your v2 you may wish to keep it and if you need a modern 35/2 get a Summicron 35/2 asph or an Ultron 35/2 asph if you are on a budget.

[Capuccino-Muffin]

I’m very perplexed when it comes down to this.  I mean I’ve been using my 50 summicron apo asph on film a lot and I keep getting these super vintagey looking prints.

But I know exactly from where comes the old time look in general: from film. It is the film that gives the look, not the lens. Use a 1980’s film and you will get 1980’s results, as simple as that. It’s not the lens.

But about the 35 cron asph, that is one fine but extra boring lens. Results are boring, no other way to explain them, really. No, it’s not a “modern” vs “vintage” thing. It’s just the way it draws. Not perfect, not imperfect, just boring.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Capuccino-Muffin

[Jeff S]

Boring pictures/picture rendering also has nothing to do with the lens.  See user.

Jeff

[bdolzani]

2 hours ago, lct said:

You would miss it soon or late for shooting people i suspect. I like much my Summicron 35/2 asph v1 but i feel it too harsh for less than perfect skins so i have kept my old Summicron 35/2 v4 and eventually bought a second copy of it. If you like your v2 you may wish to keep it and if you need a modern 35/2 get a Summicron 35/2 asph or an Ultron 35/2 asph if you are on a budget.

I do like it a lot, the vintage and how small it is. And after a Youxin cleaning, it's in great shape for its year of 1969. I'm sure I'd regret it. 

[bdolzani]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Boring pictures/picture rendering also has nothing to do with the lens.  See user.

Jeff

I would agree. However if the photo is in fact boring, and then you see every last hair-fine detail of that boring shot, then that IS boring. 

:-). 

I can agree that one either likes hyper-realism or impressionism. I tend to love the latter, however, especially with certain lenses such as the 24 ASPH, super clear detail IS pretty interesting. Not being able to achieve that with film. At the least, hyper-realism, you notice it. Do you want to see it or not? It used to be that all we could see was the impressionism of film. 

[bdolzani]

2 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

I’m very perplexed when it comes down to this.  I mean I’ve been using my 50 summicron apo asph on film a lot and I keep getting these super vintagey looking prints.

But I know exactly from where comes the old time look in general: from film. It is the film that gives the look, not the lens. Use a 1980’s film and you will get 1980’s results, as simple as that. It’s not the lens.

But about the 35 cron asph, that is one fine but extra boring lens. Results are boring, no other way to explain them, really. No, it’s not a “modern” vs “vintage” thing. It’s just the way it draws. Not perfect, not imperfect, just boring.

I for one think that using vintage lenses on digital is only a slight difference. And agree that it's the film that makes it film-like ;-). 

[bdolzani]

It's definitely a thing, to quote Andy Barton from 2008 (sorry if this is weird, I'm just digging around):

'I quite like the look of the shots, but I needed something more versatile. As I can't afford to keep three 35 lenses, I swapped it for a boring 35 Summicron ASPH, which produces shots like this'

(perhaps he was being sarcastic though..the photo was no longer available)

Edited March 31, 2022 by bdolzani

[Ko.Fe.]

I had Summaron 35 3.5 twice in M mount. Googled and not.

Sorry, but, IMOE, your style on bw film is slightly better than flat and lifeless CV CS 35 2.5.  

But, mind you, I'm talking about real bw film, not surrogate a.k.a. as negatives scans.

After first prints I got from Summarit-M 35 2.5, I never looked for anything else in 35. And I have tried many before getting it.

This is the only reason I'm holding to M4-2, if I sell it, I would not able to afford another film M and would never see prints from Summarit-M 35 2.5...

It is not modern, nor classic, it is just perfect. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Ko.Fe.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, bdolzani said:

However if the photo is in fact boring, and then you see every last hair-fine detail of that boring shot, then that IS boring. 

 

 

As Ansel Adams famously said, "There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept."  But the point is that is a user problem.

Jeff

[lct]

Some people considered the Summicron 28/2 boring too. Never understood why. I have a couple 35/2 lenses i like much too but the better compromise is my Summicron 35/2 asph v1 so far. The M11 won't change this feeling hopefully or i could well get rid of the M11 i begin to regret ordering already... 

[cesc]

hi all! here are my thoughts. I had the summicron 35 v4 as my first 35mm lens, then I sold it because I needed some cash,... 5 years later I bought a 35mm lens again, the store told me that the ASPH version was an astonishing improve and a really really good lens. So I bought it... results are just....normal I guess. I forgot to say I've just shoot on film M cameras. So yes, the film is really important about how it's rendered the image. I miss the v4, not because of all the hype about BOK, etc... 5 years ago it was not that popular (prices were more "normal") but handeling, and carrying the M with that tiny lens, and those imperfections of old glass mixed with shooting film adds that flavour and my energy to take photos, at the end is the mood I have with my camera that makes me shoot better or my way.

 

My advice, is you need that extra image quality ( with film you won't have it anyway) go for the ASPH, if not, stay with your old v2 .

I am thinking also, my next 35mm lens will be a Lux, or again a v4 summicron. Have you thought about vintages Lux?

 

[Mute-on]

I think you may already have your modern 35mm: the V2 Summicron.
 

I have a 35/2.8 Summaron, which I use happily for colour, although it does lack a little pop, and also consider a ‘modern’ 35 from time to time. If nothing else, I’m less interested in an ASPH I or II than a moody Summilux. I also only use film. 

[a.noctilux]

Brian,

You have already what you are after 😁.

Try to use more the 35mm Summicron II, just to know the lens better,

searching more lenses of same focal length can be fun or frustrating as we tend to search for the existing lenses behavior

plus something else, this something else thing can be already on the present lenses.

 

So many nice 35mm lenses I use and the last one was the "universal 35mm I searched for", naming cheap Summarit-M 2.5/35 that I

have by accident (never wanted to try/use this cheap lenses line before).

 

The other "wonder 35mm lens" is Summilux-M pre-asph. that I use for many decades in different periods and forms.

as seen here, it is "transparent" lens to learn to use happily

I know some would complain the 1m mfd and no filter thread (what I complained years ago) but in real use, with the 14504 hood accepting Serie VII

or E49 filters, no need to complain anymore.

 

My mistake when I sold the Pre-asph. titanium coated 35 Lux thinking not using it, but never found another one, replaced with plain black anodized lighter lens

my add pics of that time 🤐

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited March 31, 2022 by a.noctilux

[bdolzani]

This is all fascinating and very helpful input, I appreciate waking up to these comments :-). Thank you all. 

Perhaps I can close my 30 open browser windows (research and used markets) and get back to work (editing photos that need to be finished...). 

I suffer from getting started on work, then, 'but wait, before I get too far, what about...'

Holy moly. 

I'll reply individually as the day goes on and I absorb these thoughts. Again, immensely helpful. 

cheers

brian 

[bdolzani]

16 hours ago, cesc said:

hi all! here are my thoughts. I had the summicron 35 v4 as my first 35mm lens, then I sold it because I needed some cash,... 5 years later I bought a 35mm lens again, the store told me that the ASPH version was an astonishing improve and a really really good lens. So I bought it... results are just....normal I guess. I forgot to say I've just shoot on film M cameras. So yes, the film is really important about how it's rendered the image. I miss the v4, not because of all the hype about BOK, etc... 5 years ago it was not that popular (prices were more "normal") but handeling, and carrying the M with that tiny lens, and those imperfections of old glass mixed with shooting film adds that flavour and my energy to take photos, at the end is the mood I have with my camera that makes me shoot better or my way.

I see things the same way, with vintage on film. This is all reminding me how when I got my first M2 that I started with 35 and 50mm Zeiss's. Which were sharp as heck. So, if I wanted sharpness, I could go back to that. But the reason I sold them early on was that I wanted to use Leica on Leica...

 

16 hours ago, cesc said:

My advice, is you need that extra image quality ( with film you won't have it anyway) go for the ASPH, if not, stay with your old v2 .

I am thinking also, my next 35mm lens will be a Lux, or again a v4 summicron. Have you thought about vintages Lux?

 

Thanks a lot. Probably good advice. And yes I have been looking at pre-asph summilix's and there are a few around, however astronomical prices, and it seems things are very uncertain at 1.4, and stopping down from there is pretty much a summicron. So I came to my senses and thought that it would be like buying another very expensive v2. Though just to own one would be pretty stellar. Value is not going down...

Edited April 1, 2022 by bdolzani

[bdolzani]

15 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Brian,

You have already what you are after 😁.

Try to use more the 35mm Summicron II, just to know the lens better,

searching more lenses of same focal length can be fun or frustrating as we tend to search for the existing lenses behavior

plus something else, this something else thing can be already on the present lenses.

Maybe I do. :-). But it's fun to keep looking. Thanks for the reassurance. 

 

 

15 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

 

So many nice 35mm lenses I use and the last one was the "universal 35mm I searched for", naming cheap Summarit-M 2.5/35 that I

have by accident (never wanted to try/use this cheap lenses line before).

 

The other "wonder 35mm lens" is Summilux-M pre-asph. that I use for many decades in different periods and forms.

as seen here, it is "transparent" lens to learn to use happily

I know some would complain the 1m mfd and no filter thread (what I complained years ago) but in real use, with the 14504 hood accepting Serie VII

or E49 filters, no need to complain anymore.

I've seen a few that have E41 threads. A very odd filter size. So to use 1.4 it seems you would really have to be indoors or certainly a quite dark day. 

I almost never shoot at f2. But something about 1.4 summulix sure sounds thrilling. It's a strange desire! 

 

15 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

 

My mistake when I sold the Pre-asph. titanium coated 35 Lux thinking not using it, but never found another one, replaced with plain black anodized lighter lens

my add pics of that time 🤐

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[a.noctilux]

I didn't tell why I sold my first Summilux pre-asph 35mm (titanium coated),

because I had the 35mm asph. titanium coated * also, by then I was sure not to use the pre-asph. anymore.

*

to go with my M6 Ti replacing the pre-asph

then Ti coated replaced with the same one lighter plain black I always use today

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by a.noctilux

[giannis]

Personally, I find there's little to no benefit at all messing around with similar lenses of minute difference with each other. 

For instance your Summicron is a "modern" lens, i.e. a double gauss, coated, well corrected design. There's no reason to expect big differences between that and any other lens, from the same company, in the same format, at the same focal length, of the same aperture, and of the same optical design.

I'd say get a new 35mm only if it brings something to the table. For instance if it's a stop (or more) faster. Or if it's more ergonomic, or if it has a unique and actually decently different look (like the summaron). Something like a newer version of the same lens wouldn't justify even the bulk of keeping them both, let alone the cost.

Edited April 3, 2022 by giannis
grammar