M7 or MP

[lincoln_m]

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I have both M7 and MP. The M7 went back to Leica in 2017 because of a stuck shutter and also it let no light in at 1/1000. They fixed the DX reader by changing to optical and un stuck the blocked shutter but didn’t fix the timing so I had to send it back again in 2018. I shot 2 films ok in July 2018 then left it in my cupboard until end of 2022 when I was going to sell but now the shutter doesn’t release properly in A mode or there is no gap at any speed so you have to wind on leaving a blank image. It’s probably the solenoid, the meter works fine but the electronic shutter doesn’t. I can use it on the mechanical speeds 1/125, 1/60 which is ok for iso100 or 50 films but now it’s effectively in shutter priority mode.

if I sent it back the bill would be £1000 minimum and at least 3 months wait but I don’t know if they are able to get the timing chips anymore. Most non-Leica repairers won’t touch the M7 I think. 
Although I did love the M7 (when it worked) I’d have to advise others to get the MP instead as the shutter is mechanical and reparable and the meter is just a couple of leds giving you a suggestion of the exposure.

As others have suggested you can preset shutter and aperture for the general conditions then concentrate on focus and decisive moment to fire the shutter. B&W films have slightly more latitude (1stop) than slide film (0.5 stop) but any more than that I find it really difficult to make the image look natural in post. It’s just never looks correct when compared with a correctly exposed image, in my experience.

both cameras require manual focusing, and focus is often more important than a slightly over/under exposed image.

So MP for the mechanical serviceable shutter settings.

 

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[hansvons]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

On a side note, out of my twelve M7s, at least half of them have had electronic issues.

Steven, someone has to lead the pack. Impressive wear.

But is corroborate strikingly my decision no to go the electronic shutter path despite the advantages of an aperture priority workflow. 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by hansvons

[Huss]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

wait, what ? 

Shutter speed button....

[Huss]

2 hours ago, Steven said:

I shoot M2, M3, MA, MP, M7. If I had to chose one only, it would be MP, followed closely my MA. 

I order of preference, from the worst to the best:

I eliminate the M3 because of the framelines (I shoot mainly 35 and 28).

I eliminate the M3 because of the slow loading process. 

I eliminate the M7, because I enjoy its form factor and weight the least, but more importantly, because it's not usable enough for me if I run out of batteries while outside (only 1/60th and 1/125th will function). On a side note, out of my twelve M7s, at least half of them have had electronic issues. Sometimes unrepairable. 

I eliminate, with a heavy heart, the MA, because of the convenience of having a built in meter, especially for indoor shooting, which is when i only really need it. 

I keep the MP, because it's the only one that I know how to use like an M2, an M3, an MA, and even an M7. 

You have twelve M7s?  Why didn't you just buy one M84?

[contre-la-montre]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Steven:

There’s no exposure lock on the M7. 

… hm, „12 M7s“, and they all miss the metering memory-lock (cf. p. 98f. of the manual) @Huss and I appreciate using whenever indicated?

Edited July 17, 2023 by contre-la-montre

[contre-la-montre]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Steven:

The three I just tried right now do miss it. I’m sure the other 9 do too. 
Could you walk me through the AEL feature, so I can quadruple check it’s not a user error on my side ? 

Just look at the manual p. 98f. The shutter release button has a second pressure point (the first activating the measuring) that allows for memory lock.

[Huss]

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No issues getting the AE lock to work on all twelve two of my M7s.  Super easy.  Of note - I do not use a soft release.

[Kl@usW.]

Am 17.7.2023 um 17:11 schrieb Steven:

On a side note, out of my twelve M7s, at least half of them have had electronic issues.

All my three M7s  I had over the years   suffered  from electric or electronic problems. The last M7 I sent to Wetzlar 2 years ago because of severe battery drainage got a new wiring or something like that-- well over 1k. Minor issue was the loss of the battery compartment lid which rendered the camera quite useless for the next weeks-because it was impossible to get a spare in my holiday destination. I sold the lot and now have a two MPs and a couple of Barnacks. About the Aperture priority function: it never worked for me, I habitually had to use the AE-lock to get  a proper reading... 

So if you are happy with your M7 : do keep it and enjoy it. And pack a spare lid for the battery compartment and/ or a light meter for your next holiday... 

May sound a bit like a disappointed lover, perhaps I am just that..

 

[Bronco McBeast]

As I said many times in the past, and got mocked: the M7’s construction leaves a lot to be desired. The shutter rod mechanism is absolutely badly designed. Ask Don Goldberg what he thinks of it.

That is an issue with the Leicavit as well which makes it super slouchy, and the intermittent non-responsiveness which haooens to the M7.

 

No, Huss, it’s not a problem with a certain film canister. It’s a problem with the M7’s engineering. Period.

[Bronco McBeast]

6 hours ago, Steven said:

As much as I love my customised M7s, I have to agree with you. They’re just problems. Battery drainage. DX codes readers. Electronic curtain failures. Locked shutters. They always let me down. I once even had an M7 that stopped working for 48 hours because of extreme humidity where I was. 

Totally. I’ve been saying that since ever it came out. 

The humidity problem is connected to the hot shoe. Keep it dry and preferably keep a hot shoe plug on it at all times. That will help.

The M7 was supposed to be the fast abd ultimate AE  stealth street shooter but it failed. It’s only a great 3rd Leica, backup of a backup, or for around the city shooting but not for serious pj.

It will fail and it’s waiting to happen.

Last summer I had to shoot 100+ films at 1/125@f16 because it stopped working.

[kivis]

On 7/17/2023 at 11:11 AM, Steven said:

I shoot M2, M3, MA, MP, M7. If I had to chose one only, it would be MP, followed closely my MA. 

I order of preference, from the worst to the best:

I eliminate the M3 because of the framelines (I shoot mainly 35 and 28).

I eliminate the M3 because of the slow loading process. 

I eliminate the M7, because I enjoy its form factor and weight the least, but more importantly, because it's not usable enough for me if I run out of batteries while outside (only 1/60th and 1/125th will function). On a side note, out of my twelve M7s, at least half of them have had electronic issues. Sometimes unrepairable. 

I eliminate, with a heavy heart, the MA, because of the convenience of having a built in meter, especially for indoor shooting, which is when i only really need it. 

I keep the MP, because it's the only one that I know how to use like an M2, an M3, an MA, and even an M7. 

12 M7's? !!!

[Huss]

4 hours ago, Bronco McBeast said:

As I said many times in the past, and got mocked: the M7’s construction leaves a lot to be desired. The shutter rod mechanism is absolutely badly designed. Ask Don Goldberg what he thinks of it.

That is an issue with the Leicavit as well which makes it super slouchy, and the intermittent non-responsiveness which haooens to the M7.

 

No, Huss, it’s not a problem with a certain film canister. It’s a problem with the M7’s engineering. Period.

I agree the DX canister problem is due to Leica’s engineering.  Just saying the problem is a result of their implementation.

The single best thing Leica could have done to the M7 would have been to get rid of the DX reader entirely.  Bizarre how this stuff works perfectly on a $50 p&s but Leica couldn’t figure it out on a $5000 camera.  But hey - Leica!

[Huss]

P.s still love my M7s!

[kivis]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

It’s a long story 

Share it sometime. Love to hear how one ends up with 12 M7's.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, kivis said:

Share it sometime. Love to hear how one ends up with 12 M7's.

he kept on ordering the Leica WL, and they kept on sending him M7

Edited July 20, 2023 by Huss

[kivis]

3 hours ago, Huss said:

he kept on ordering the Leica WL, and they kept on sending him M7

What is a Leica WL?

[Huss]

17 hours ago, kivis said:

What is a Leica WL?

inverted image of M7...

[edstock]

I have never owned or used an MP so I can't comment on it. I have owned and still own my M7 black that I bought when they first came out. I've used it extensively in various conditions, Europe and the US. Never have had a problem. I use it almost all the time set on auto. Manual when I want to get creative or the scene demands very specific handling. I've read recently on the forum about the MP and scratches on the film. Regards the M7 electronics, I don't worry about them. When I was shooting professional the M7 helped make me money. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Huss]

An M7 can be used like an MP, but an MP cannot be used like an M7.

 

I’m just putting up arguments because when I use my MP, I love it too!

I just shot a bunch of rolls through my 7 this weekend, and it is so quick to use because of AE.  Doing ‘street’ from shadows to middling to bright light following action - just lift the camera and shoot - done! Like any other AE camera on the planet (but way more fun!)