Buying a used leica m body - advice of UK / London stores

[sevsuk]

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Hi all, I'm looking to upgrade my m4-p, to either a M6 or M10, I was wondering if anyone had any buying experience from The following stores, as the stock images lood good as do the prices.  Or,  better still could recommend somewhere in uk.

https://theclassiccamera.com/

https://www.apertureuk.com/

Thank in advance

Steve

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[nitroplait]

4 minutes ago, sevsuk said:

 I was wondering if anyone had any buying experience from The following stores, as the stock images lood good as do the prices. 

No recent experience with UK dealers, so can't help you there. Just a quick thought; if a camera looks good in the picture AND has a good price, then I tend to trust the price rather than the picture as indicator of condition - especially when it comes to established dealers.

[LocalHero1953]

The Classic Camera has had mixed reviews here in the past, but I have bought from them and traded in without problems. I don't want to convey misinformation from ignorance, but IIRC Leica removed them as an approved dealer, but later reinstated them. Others may have better recall.

[pgk]

Additional UK dealers that I have dealt with (no other affiliations) and would trust are:

https://www.reddotcameras.co.uk (London)

https://www.ffordes.com (Scotland - fine to deal with by mail order)

http://www.peterloy.com/stock-list.php (London)

https://www.harrisoncameras.co.uk/used (Sheffield - fine by mail order)

https://www.leicastoremanchester.com/product-category/pre-owned/ (Manchester obviously but again mail order)

https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Secondhand-Search/?Order=Latest&View=Grid&SHMake=Leica&SHModel=&SHType=&Location=&Results=12 (throughout the country)

And there are others whom I have no direct dealings with. In the UK you have the statutary right to return something under the distance selling rules if it is not as described and many dealers have a return period anyway. If you interested in a camera, phone the dealer and discuss it with them. Most will be delighted to do so.

[sevsuk]

27 minutes ago, pgk said:

Additional UK dealers that I have dealt with (no other affiliations) and would trust are:

https://www.reddotcameras.co.uk (London)

https://www.ffordes.com (Scotland - fine to deal with by mail order)

http://www.peterloy.com/stock-list.php (London)

https://www.harrisoncameras.co.uk/used (Sheffield - fine by mail order)

https://www.leicastoremanchester.com/product-category/pre-owned/ (Manchester obviously but again mail order)

https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Secondhand-Search/?Order=Latest&View=Grid&SHMake=Leica&SHModel=&SHType=&Location=&Results=12 (throughout the country)

And there are others whom I have no direct dealings with. In the UK you have the statutary right to return something under the distance selling rules if it is not as described and many dealers have a return period anyway. If you interested in a camera, phone the dealer and discuss it with them. Most will be delighted to do so.

Thanks Paul, really helpful.  I wasnt aware of Peter Loy and forgot all abou LCE.  Thanks so much, really appreciated.  Steve.

[sevsuk]

2 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

The Classic Camera has had mixed reviews here in the past, but I have bought from them and traded in without problems. I don't want to convey misinformation from ignorance, but IIRC Leica removed them as an approved dealer, but later reinstated them. Others may have better recall.

Hi Paul, thats just what I was after, a balanced and honest response.  Thanks for your input.  Steve.

[sevsuk]

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2 hours ago, nitroplait said:

No recent experience with UK dealers, so can't help you there. Just a quick thought; if a camera looks good in the picture AND has a good price, then I tend to trust the price rather than the picture as indicator of condition - especially when it comes to established dealers.

THanks for the input, much appreciated.  steve

[LocalHero1953]

4 hours ago, sevsuk said:

Hi all, I'm looking to upgrade my m4-p, to either a M6 or M10, I was wondering if anyone had any buying experience from The following stores, as the stock images lood good as do the prices.  Or,  better still could recommend somewhere in uk.

https://theclassiccamera.com/

https://www.apertureuk.com/

Thank in advance

Steve

Camkins Camera in Cambridge has a M6 in its window between £2-3k. I saw it there but couldn’t see it on their website. It was still there on Friday. Might be worth a call. 
Other online dealers not mentioned so far include Vintage & Classic Cameras, West Yorkshire Cameras, and The Latent Image. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[pgk]

4 hours ago, sevsuk said:

Hi all, I'm looking to upgrade my m4-p, to either a M6 or M10 .....

Just a thought but having owned an M4-P and M6,  I wouldn't upgrade the M4-P to an M6 camera myself although a different viewfinder magnification (if that is what you want) might be beneficial. An M10 might well be a different option of upgrade though, if you want to trade film for digital.

[Anbaric]

See also:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/324687-where-can-i-buy-an-old-leica-in-the-uk

And this search site (not just for lenses):

https://usedlens.co.uk/

And this list:

https://lightbox.photo/posts/where-to-buy-film-cameras-in-the-UK.html

Most of the established UK dealers are very good in my experience - I've happily used Aperture, Red Dot, Peter Loy, The Classic Camera, LCE, Ffordes, Cameraworld, Park, Dale, MPB etc. with no significant problems, and some ebay sellers are also excellent (read feedback critically, including all negative feedback).

I wouldn't use Peter Walnes (aka Arri888 on ebay), Rocky Cameras or Nicholas Cameras, and MW Classic have recently had some terrible Trustpilot reviews.

[farnz]

I would advise to be very careful if dealing with Peter Walnes (not sure of his ebay identity).  He had been a good source of Leica equipment but this appears to have changed resulting in highly negative reports here and others published in Amateur Photographer magazine.  I note that he has now been declared bankrupt.  The bankruptcy order filed in The Gazette.

Pete.

[Ray Vonn]

2 hours ago, Anbaric said:

and MW Classic have recently had some terrible Trustpilot reviews.

I'd love to have bought some gear off these guys which was on their site but alas, no one picked up the phone and no response to emails.  Would have been quite terrifying if I'd transferred some money over to them.

[Pyrogallol]

10 minutes ago, Ray Vonn said:

I'd love to have bought some gear off these guys which was on their site but alas, no one picked up the phone and no response to emails.  Would have been quite terrifying if I'd transferred some money over to them.

He does put most? of his stuff on e bay, if you buy it from there you should get e bay protection if the purchase goes wrong. I have bought from him on e bay and possibly buying a lens at the moment.

[LocalHero1953]

I have a current claim for a refund on my credit card for MW Classic - ordered a SBLOO viewfinder which didn't turn up, and he doesn't respond to emails or phone calls.
Avoid. 

[pgk]

43 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I have a current claim for a refund on my credit card for MW Classic - ordered a SBLOO viewfinder which didn't turn up, and he doesn't respond to emails or phone calls.
Avoid. 

A pity because he used to be ok but lately seems to have become unresponsive and more difficult to deal with. Still updating the website though.

[farnz]

31 minutes ago, pgk said:

A pity because he used to be ok but lately seems to have become unresponsive and more difficult to deal with. Still updating the website though.

The "M" of MW was Mahendra who sold his half of the business several years ago to "W" (David Woodford) and until Mahendra left it was a pleasant business to deal with. 

Mahendra has been unsuccessfully trying to get his name removed from the business largely because of the poor customer service that's now left and the unfortunate effect that could have on his good name and character.  I think it's very sad when formerly good companies lose the plot.

Pete.

[pgk]

4 minutes ago, farnz said:

I think it's very sad when formerly good companies lose the plot.

It is. I have a suspicion that the last couple of years have been very hard on some businesses specialising in second hand gear by mail order. Stock has probably become difficult to obtain especially as auctions consolidated their online presence and travelling and inspecting lots became more difficult. Too easy to end up with unprofitable gear. Add to this the public's ability to browse the web more whilst at home and find auction items for themselves and I'd guess that there has probably been something of a squeeze. This appears to be fairly obvious if you look at some of the new stock being offered and the lack of a lot of choice in some areas like Leica lenses from some dealers.

[farnz]

1 minute ago, pgk said:

It is. I have a suspicion that the last couple of years have been very hard on some businesses specialising in second hand gear by mail order. Stock has probably become difficult to obtain especially as auctions consolidated their online presence and travelling and inspecting lots became more difficult. Too easy to end up with unprofitable gear. Add to this the public's ability to browse the web more whilst at home and find auction items for themselves and I'd guess that there has probably been something of a squeeze. This appears to be fairly obvious if you look at some of the new stock being offered and the lack of a lot of choice in some areas like Leica lenses from some dealers.

I agree although that can't be MW Classics's excuse unfortunately because the dismal customer service and non-fulfilment of orders have being going on since well before the pandemic hit.  A long-term forum member from New Zealand reached out to me in 2017 about an order he'd paid for but not received and he couldn't contact MW Classics.  I'd met Mahendra so on the forum member's behalf I looked into what was going on and found out about Mahendra's retirement and leaving the business.

After many attempts I managed to contact MW Classics and raised what had happened with the order.  At first they claimed to know nothing of the order until I sent them the paperwork showing that they'd accepted the order and accepted payment but supplied nothing.  Then they said that a mix-up had occurred and the items should have been sent and would be sent out asap.  I gave them 14 days to send me confirmation that they'd sent the items but I received nothing and was unable to contact them anymore.  I advised the forum member to file a claim through his bankcard company and fortunately I understand that he was fully reimbursed.

Pete.

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[pgk]

10 minutes ago, farnz said:

After many attempts I managed to contact MW Classics and raised what had happened with the order.

Some months ago I ordered some items from them and after a few weeks had to keep phoning until I finally got through. Apologies and finally all but one items arrived along with a refund for the missing item which they said had been sold, despite the website clearing it as available. I don't know what the problem is but it either needs sorting out or their reputation will disappear completely.

[M9reno]

Avoid West Yorkshire Cameras as well. Ignorance and arrogance are the worst traits in customer service (except for outright dishonesty). The owner doesn’t know what lenses fit on what cameras, and apparently also thinks that a lens diaphragm that is splattered in oil is perfectly ok, not worth mentioning in descriptions etc. Apparently the hipsters who seem to form the bulk of their clientele don’t care. But life is too short for that kind of thing. 
 

Peter Loy is the best. 100% satisfaction over many years of custom. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by M9reno