Randy Cole Posted March 11, 2022 Share #1 Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, new to the forum. I am hoping to have some input on this camera. It's my first military Leica, and from what I can see, it's a Luftwaffen Eigentum dating to the beginning of 1943. I welcome all comments on this camera. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited March 11, 2022 by Randy Cole 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330610-1943-luftwaffen-eigentum/?do=findComment&comment=4398867'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 11, 2022 Posted March 11, 2022 Hi Randy Cole, Take a look here 1943 Luftwaffen Eigentum. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dubois pierre Posted March 11, 2022 Share #2 Posted March 11, 2022 Hi Randy, this IIIC K N°390015 was delivred to 28.01.1944 to the Luftwaffe. But the Summitar N°585458 is not military lens. Have you got the K on the curtain (White paint)?. Two inscriptions have been deleted, on the top FI N°38079 and on the back Luftwaffen-Eigentum. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330610-1943-luftwaffen-eigentum/?do=findComment&comment=4398911'>More sharing options...
Gobert Posted March 11, 2022 Share #3 Posted March 11, 2022 @dubois pierre, wasn’t this the red curtain period? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted March 11, 2022 Share #4 Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) Here are some dates/serials often quoted for IIIc external feature changes. As always, exceptions, upgrades, repairs may produce variances. Many internal changes known to experts, (Jerzy). Red Curtain 362,401 (Oct. 39)-379,226(July 41) From 380901 slow speed dial lock From 374,501 non removable shutter release guard Edited March 11, 2022 by alan mcfall 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Cole Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share #5 Posted March 11, 2022 @dubois pierrethank you. There is a K on the curtain, although it is a bit faded. It is in one of the pictures. I am curious about your information about the lens, simply because the lens flange has been ground down, so I think that someone removed something there too. I assumed it was the Luftwaffen Eigentum engraving. Also @alan mcfall suggested that the shutter release guard should be non-removable. Considering mine is removed, this is also something I am curious about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted March 11, 2022 Share #6 Posted March 11, 2022 Firstly it is understood that all military Leica IIIC K after the number 388926 had ball bearing shutters. For your Summitar no listed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Cole Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share #7 Posted March 11, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330610-1943-luftwaffen-eigentum/?do=findComment&comment=4398989'>More sharing options...
Randy Cole Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share #8 Posted March 11, 2022 Thank you for the input @dubois pierre, much appreciated. I have added a couple more photos. The initial upload didn't allow all of the pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted March 11, 2022 Share #9 Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) to visualize what Alan meant - to right is the one that your should have (double threaded), it was introduced with 374501, on the old one (left) you need to unscrew the collar to mount remote release. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And to the lens - serial is not listed as Luftwaffen nor WH. Mount seem to me to be nickeled. There were no nickel plated Summitars so chrome plating must have been removed. And it looks like there is separation in the front group, not so uncommon for earlier Summitars Edited March 11, 2022 by jerzy 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! And to the lens - serial is not listed as Luftwaffen nor WH. Mount seem to me to be nickeled. There were no nickel plated Summitars so chrome plating must have been removed. And it looks like there is separation in the front group, not so uncommon for earlier Summitars ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330610-1943-luftwaffen-eigentum/?do=findComment&comment=4398998'>More sharing options...
Randy Cole Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share #10 Posted March 11, 2022 Hi @jerzy, thank you for the clarification on the shutter release. I'm pretty sure the flange of the lens is actually bare brass. It also shows some marks from sandpaper or a file, it's not perfectly polished, but it appears to have been worked on around the full circumference. It is a bit shiny (not by me), but some marks are visible in the metal, you can kind of see them in the photo I added above. Yes, it definitely has separation. Regards, Randy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan mcfall Posted March 12, 2022 Share #11 Posted March 12, 2022 In a perfect world, your case would have this stamped on top. They occasionally pop up, but are getting harder to find. Non-removable was the wrong word for the shutter button guard, it can be removed, but that is only required when removing the top plate. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330610-1943-luftwaffen-eigentum/?do=findComment&comment=4399124'>More sharing options...
Randy Cole Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share #12 Posted March 12, 2022 @alan mcfall, I was searching the case for some emboss or marking, but alas, it's not the right case :-). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted March 12, 2022 Share #13 Posted March 12, 2022 13 hours ago, alan mcfall said: Here are some dates/serials often quoted for IIIc external feature changes. As always, exceptions, upgrades, repairs may produce variances. Many internal changes known to experts, (Jerzy). Red Curtain 362,401 (Oct. 39)-379,226(July 41) From 380901 slow speed dial lock From 374,501 non removable shutter release guard Hi Alan, it seems to me that the first IIIc body with a red curtain is the 362402. Many assumptions about these red fabric curtains. Some say that due to a shortage of black cloth (priority to the war effort parachutes) a red fabric was used. Leitz in 1937 used red cloth on a small number of Leica IIIs for tropical expeditions with strong sunlight. Most likely, after No. 362401, Leitz would have used red tinted fabric from Kodak. The black curtains reappear after N° 379226, but already 14'000 IIIc bodies had received this famous red curtain. In any case the presence of this red curtain can bring a value of more than 50% to the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted March 12, 2022 Share #14 Posted March 12, 2022 In my ex collection I had this rare Leica IIIc chromed N°374392 (1941) with a red curtain with eagle and swastika engraving (Reichsadler). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330610-1943-luftwaffen-eigentum/?do=findComment&comment=4399279'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted March 12, 2022 Share #15 Posted March 12, 2022 vor 1 Stunde schrieb dubois pierre: t seems to me that the first IIIc body with a red curtain is the 362402 Pierre, not so important, but "Tagebuch für Leica-Änderungen" (Vidom Spezial) says it was from 362401 (ab in German). Yes, red curtains add value, however it is not so easy to find them not damaged. Very often you see black or even sometimes white dots on the red fabric. Usualy opening curtain (to inspect the red fabric side you need to take off the body shell) is better than the closing one. Black curtains havbe 2 layers: black fabric and rubber. Red curtains have 3 layers: red fabric, white layer (rubber or paint or whatever) and then comes black rubber. For unknown reasons there seem to be a chemical reaction between white layer and black rubber which becomes soft and sticky, sticks to the red fabric of opening curtain when shutter is wound. Strange enough, the detorations is only on the part of curtain which is glued to the shutter drum. So I believe this process has something to do with the chemical reaction between glue and white layer. Therefore, on my 2 red curtain cameras with non damaged curtains I did preventive remove curtains from the drums, cleaned drums from old glue and reglued the curtains. In 40-50 years we will see if this was needed, if it helped 🙂 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted March 12, 2022 Share #16 Posted March 12, 2022 Yes Jerzy for the problem of the red curtains it is one of the explanations, another possible which accentuates the degradation, the strong light on the curtains by the lens which acts like a magnifying glass. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/330610-1943-luftwaffen-eigentum/?do=findComment&comment=4399309'>More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted March 14, 2022 Share #17 Posted March 14, 2022 In few seconds the support is damaged. This is why during expeditions with strong sunlight it was recommended to put the caps back on the lens. My experience with the xenon. https://www.facebook.com/phoebebridgers/videos/387568852315403 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted March 14, 2022 Share #18 Posted March 14, 2022 Oups sorry mistake!!. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubois pierre Posted March 14, 2022 Share #19 Posted March 14, 2022 During expeditions with strong sunlight it was advised to the users of cameras with curtains to protect the lenses with their caps. Indeed it could occur a magnifying effect on the curtains with a strong heat damaging them. https://www.facebook.com/pierre.dubois.3557440/videos/365117985624042/?notif_id=1647268124927773¬if_t=video_processed&ref=notif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 14, 2022 Share #20 Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) I am not expert on military Leicas... never had one... so I have a curiosity : is it normal to have - base removed - the usual "sticker" for film loading instructions in 4 languages ? After all, they were made for German users only... Btw... the depicted IIIck shows a small crack on vulcanite, but the paint is really fine... I wonder if it can be one of the cameras that passed "new or next to" from Wetzlar (or some military warehouse) to US military people during the occupation period., after (roughly) deleting their military writings. Edited March 14, 2022 by luigi bertolotti Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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