FW update Shutter curtain / firing suggestion.

[Sean ASA]

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When not in Aperture priority, i.e. in manual mode, the option for the camera to start with a closed curtain and simple fire with the settings that are set. Single open and close. But also with the added ability to push a function bottom, which then opens the curtain to allow a manual multi meter reading from the sensor, then either after a set time interval or second push of button re close the shutter curtain. From there return to old fashion curtain open close. I'm not understanding why the cameras default is open sensor for all shooting purposes. I'm not constantly changing exposure settings. In Aperture priority mode, then perhaps totally get it. This is to address perceived shutter lag thing (which I get doesn't actually exist), an open sensor protection thing, but primary a sound thing, I only spent a little time in a shop but didn't love the way the mechanism behaved. And if its behaviour is optional then no-one who doesn't want it has to have it. What do we think.  

[LEGEND]

I also had almost the same idea before the Leica M11 was announced
This could make the M11 to operate similar as M6 or M3.
It depend if you use the exposure meter or not.
Also perhaps if they can per FW update to implement EFCS
like the SL system has. I am not sure if this could work on the new
M11 sensor or not but Leica knows better…

My another idea that you could make to work per FW update is
that when you work in manual mode and with rangefinder, no live view or EVF,
that the shutter speed is displayed inside the rangefinder per LED like when
you work in A mode. That way you don’t need to take the camera off the eye to
check what shutter speed you have set or to count the shutter speed like on the
old analog Leica M cameras. The red LED arrows that are foe exposure metering
can stay on so you can use them as before. This function is uf course optional
and also that can be set on some of the FN buttons. Perhaps even on the first pressure
point on the shutter button. As long you hold it pressed it shoves you the shutter speed
in the rangefinder with the red LED display. I always have this problem when I use my M11
in the manual mode. I look through the rangefinder , set exposure with red LED arrows but
I get confused what shutter speed I had selected. If I can see the shutter sped right away in
the rangefinder when I set the exposer this could be very helpful function. Than I don’t need to
take the camera of the eye and look on the shutter dial or to turn on the live view to check the
shutter speed that I selected. I know it could disturb you from composing the image but if this is
set on the FN button this will be no problem. DSLR or other mirrorless cameras viewfinder is
overcrowded with different informations. Shutter speed displayed per LED inside the rangefinder
is almost nothing in compare.   I am sure this  could also  be helpful to other users of Leica M rangefinders…

What is yours opinion about all this?  

[Sean ASA]

Hi Legend, I'm not sure of the display limitations but yes showing SS might be useful. Of course and this may just be a clarification thing, The red LED arrows that are for exposure metering can stay on so you can use them as before. If as used as before referee to the older M10 etc, then it can't as the white dot and the mechanism to measure the reflection has been removed from the M11, hence the reason the curtain needs to be open to read off the sensor. If you have the camera then you'd know this and its just a mis interpretation on my part of your sentence. Cheers for taking time to add a long comment.  

[JPP1]

36 minutes ago, LEGEND said:

My another idea that you could make to work per FW update is
that when you work in manual mode and with rangefinder, no live view or EVF,
that the shutter speed is displayed inside the rangefinder per LED like when
you work in A mode. That way you don’t need to take the camera off the eye to
check what shutter speed you have set or to count the shutter speed like on the
old analog Leica M cameras.

+1

And there used to be one analog M that worked like that: the M5, always showing the speed at the bottom of the viewfinder.

The shutter speed disk around the shutter release was far more easy to use than the classic speed knob while using the viewfinder.

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, Sean ASA said:

When not in Aperture priority, i.e. in manual mode, the option for the camera to start with a closed curtain and simple fire with the settings that are set. Single open and close. But also with the added ability to push a function bottom, which then opens the curtain to allow a manual multi meter reading from the sensor, then either after a set time interval or second push of button re close the shutter curtain. From there return to old fashion curtain open close. I'm not understanding why the cameras default is open sensor for all shooting purposes. I'm not constantly changing exposure settings. In Aperture priority mode, then perhaps totally get it. This is to address perceived shutter lag thing (which I get doesn't actually exist), an open sensor protection thing, but primary a sound thing, I only spent a little time in a shop but didn't love the way the mechanism behaved. And if its behaviour is optional then no-one who doesn't want it has to have it. What do we think.  

M11 metering is off the sensor. Therefore the sensor needs to be exposed for metering to work. Metering is active in Manual mode as well.

What problem are you trying to solve?

The shutter lag difference is too small to require a fix; the sensor is open only when the lens is mounted. I am confident that M11 owners do not mind the sound once they get used to it. It has been almost a tradition that the shutter sounds changes with new model :).

 

[LEGEND]

35 minutes ago, Sean ASA said:

Hi Legend, I'm not sure of the display limitations but yes showing SS might be useful. Of course and this may just be a clarification thing, The red LED arrows that are for exposure metering can stay on so you can use them as before. If as used as before referee to the older M10 etc, then it can't as the white dot and the mechanism to measure the reflection has been removed from the M11, hence the reason the curtain needs to be open to read off the sensor. If you have the camera then you'd know this and its just a mis interpretation on my part of your sentence. Cheers for taking time to add a long comment.  

Hi,

I mean limitations in rangefinder  viewfinder because for some users of M this can be disturbing during the process of making a composition. Too much red light from LED. Think about analog Leica MP and Leica MA that has no espouser meter inside and that is considered “pure“ or camera with 100% “das Wesentliche".
For some people even a little bit of info or something is to much inside a viewfinder.

I know the function of the red arrows as you need them for exposure metering. Uf course that they must stay on all the time. That is the point of showing a shutter speed inside a rangefinder during a light metering.

You just need to turn the aperture or shutter speed dial according what the metering arrows shows and the shutter speed is showed inside the viewfinder together with metering arrows all the time. Then you can do light metering as long as you wish with the camera on the eye. No need to check the shutter speed if you are not sure what you had set. I tend to turn LW a lot to check exposure and other things because I used the SL cameras to long and get spoiled with the histogram and exposure preview. I would be very happy if I could have histogram displayed inside of the Leica M rangefinder but this is not possible in the moment.

I know that metering dot on the shutter of other M cameras is not longer on the M11. That is the reason why
the shutter need to be open. If you close the shutter before so that he don’t need to be closed and then opened  then closed then again opened for the next shoot, you get the shutter move like M10. Also the shutter shock if any will be less but with EFCS is even better. There is shutter delay phenomenon that some photographer troubled and that will be reduced for a very little but that is not important. To me shutter of M11 is fast as it is but if can be improved, why not? On the other hand if you on M11 close the shutter you also loose light metering. For that is good to have for the metering one FN button set. If you want to meter light just press the FN button. If you don’t then you have something like M3. It would be cool if the red arrows for the light metering during this “real“ rangefinder mode could be off. You can walk around with your M11, use the Sunny 16 rule, think and enjoy life with no distractions of any sort.

I think the best would be to have some sort of combination from everything together with option to turn it on or off if not needed.
Also I have M11 that i enjoy and learn to know. Such a great camera…

I think I will write an email to Leica about this… Let se if they listen…

Sorry for the long post… I tend to talk much and as it seams write also. Asperger syndrome, you know…

[Sean ASA]

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Problem to solve, no, but FW improvement (as an option) maybe. To my logic, Close, Open, Close, Open has to take longer than Open, Close and continual Metering in manual mode is something I don't need, on my M3 with MR4 meter I take occasional readings as the conditions change. Again I imagine constant metering must use some additional power, but mainly its the C.O.C.O and sound which isn't as pure, but take your point about different sounds. Usually quieter and simpler the better, though no sound as we might get with the global shutter on the M12 might be a defenen silence!. 

[strohscw]

"Single open and close"

Sounds like an M10 to me.

Edited February 19, 2022 by strohscw