Is it worth jumping to the new generation of cameras for better autofocus?

[jrp]

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It seems fairly clear that Nikon, Canon and Sony are moving to a new generation of processors that offer better autofocusing capabilities than are available with the SL range, for moving targets like unposed people or wildlife.

As well as my Leica system, I have a whole legacy of Nikon and, to a lesser extent, Sony, gear.  My desire to go light was, however, trumped by the image quality of the SL system.

Or I should say its quality for static or close to static subject matter.  I would like to be shoot family type photos reliably.  In a lot of circumstances, the SL system is fine, and the 50mm Summilux sublime.  Some of this is using a high enough shutter speed, of course, but I suspect but, while the SL / SL2 AF is OK if the subject is relatively still, it is evidently less capable when the subject is moving about.

For those that have an alternative system beyond the SL, have you found that the Sony A1 or Nikon Z9 is enough of a jump over the SL/Panasonic line to make it worth having both?

[Guest]

Z9 is too big and A1 doesn't play nice with Leica lenses without sensor mod - I have settled on the Z7 and if you have time would recommend to wait for Z7 III at end of this year which may even have the next generation (better than Z9 or A1) Sony sensor ...

[Gavin Cato]

I get by fine with SL2's at weddings AF wise. But that said, comparing an A1 (or even a A9) is like comparing a F22 to a Cessna.

The AF abilities of the Sony are on another planet. They are so far ahead it's not even remotely comparable.

I don't miss my sony files, but I do miss the AF!

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Gavin Cato said:

I get by fine with SL2's at weddings AF wise. But that said, comparing an A1 (or even a A9) is like comparing a F22 to a Cessna.

The AF abilities of the Sony are on another planet. They are so far ahead it's not even remotely comparable.

I don't miss my sony files, but I do miss the AF!

 

Nikon Z9 is on par with Sony, "on another planet" I guess is compared to SL2?

[Leicaiste]

I have a Canon R5 system when autofocus is important. 
 

Mainly children and wildlife. 

[opera207]

For mirrorless full frame and 4433

Best AF cameras: Sony a1/fx3/s3/a7m4; Canon r6 r5 r3; Nikon z9...

Second tier: sony a7r4 a7m3, nikon z6/7 series...

Third tier: leica sl2/sl2s, pana s1/s1r/s1h/s5, fuji gfx100/100s...

Fourth: Fuji gfx 50 series, hassy x1d2/907x...

[frame-it]

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2 hours ago, opera207 said:

For mirrorless full frame and 4433

Best AF cameras: Sony a1/fx3/s3/a7m4; Canon r6 r5 r3; Nikon z9...

Second tier: sony a7r4 a7m3, nikon z6/7 series...

Third tier: leica sl2/sl2s, pana s1/s1r/s1h/s5, fuji gfx100/100s...

Fourth: Fuji gfx 50 series, hassy x1d2/907x...

you have used a lot of cameras

[jrp]

Thanks, all. The answer seems to be “yes” …

[XRayGuy]

20 hours ago, opera207 said:

For mirrorless full frame and 4433

Best AF cameras: Sony a1/fx3/s3/a7m4; Canon r6 r5 r3; Nikon z9...

Second tier: sony a7r4 a7m3, nikon z6/7 series...

Third tier: leica sl2/sl2s, pana s1/s1r/s1h/s5, fuji gfx100/100s...

Fourth: Fuji gfx 50 series, hassy x1d2/907x...

While I largely agree with this, Nikon Z6/Z7 are tier 3 or 4 at best.  The OP definitely should not get a Z6 or Z7 if they want meaningfully better AF than the SL2.  The Z9 definitely has improved AF, but the EVF is a huge downgrade IMHO from the SL2 and it is just a massive camera which makes no sense unless you regularly shoot with large telephoto lenses.

If you really need better AF, the A1 or R5 are probably your best bets right now.

[Gavin Cato]

On 2/20/2022 at 12:25 PM, XRayGuy said:

If you really need better AF, the A1 or R5 are probably your best bets right now.

 

I used a friends A1 the other day.

No intention of buying one (these leica lenses have me) but holy hell. The bloody camera does everything for you apart from press the button.

[XRayGuy]

It is incredible really, and the newer GM lenses are truly impressive.  The problem is that it is just not that fun to shoot (nor are Canon/Nikon cameras in my opinion).

[hellobrandonscott]

I must use AF way differently than most. I've photographed an entire year's worth of weddings (87) with these SL2-S's and never had an issue with AF. I just have it set to spot focus, and then use the little nubbin button on the back to engage AF (aka back button AF). Hits 99% of the time, and if it doesn't, a quick try again and we're good. How are other people using AF to say that it's terrible? 

[nicci78]

The real benefit of stacked sensor cameras are mostly usable electronic shutter at 99% of situations instead of 66%. Those numbers are made up by the way. Just for illustrative purpose. 😉

AF speed is more a matter of algorithms. Of course higher read out speed help it a lot. 
 

SL3 will certainly come with a stacked sensor. 

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, hellobrandonscott said:

Hits 99% of the time, and if it doesn't, a quick try again and we're good. How are other people using AF to say that it's terrible? 

you answered your own question

 

[tom0511]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb hellobrandonscott:

I must use AF way differently than most. I've photographed an entire year's worth of weddings (87) with these SL2-S's and never had an issue with AF. I just have it set to spot focus, and then use the little nubbin button on the back to engage AF (aka back button AF). Hits 99% of the time, and if it doesn't, a quick try again and we're good. How are other people using AF to say that it's terrible? 

For me SL2 Af  works fine until I feel the need for C-AF for sports, like handball, or dog running towards me, or football. 

[Malabito]

On 2/21/2022 at 8:37 AM, hellobrandonscott said:

I must use AF way differently than most. I've photographed an entire year's worth of weddings (87) with these SL2-S's and never had an issue with AF. I just have it set to spot focus, and then use the little nubbin button on the back to engage AF (aka back button AF). Hits 99% of the time, and if it doesn't, a quick try again and we're good. How are other people using AF to say that it's terrible? 

It aslo depends on the lens. My Panasonic 24mm f1.8 works great, it can even be used with afc, (for slow moving subjcets), on the other hand my 35mm sl apo is a disaster, only works in afs.

[P1505]

I got to try an A1.

Wow.

The files were awful but the thing is glued to whatever you tell it to focus on. It’s insane.

[jrp]

In what respect were the files awful?

[tom0511]

The SL2 AF for me is fine for many things, including images of the kids.

However - when it comes to faster action, soccer, handball, running dog - my keepter rate has not been that great. Yes, you get shots, but its including some luck.

I therefore just added a Canon R5 with a 2480 and a 70200. The AF is impressive. Just shot handball game of the kids and my keeper rate AF wise has been very, very good.

I also find that I did not have to "work/think" as much with the Canon, I could focus more on the subject and the AF just worked "in the background".

It is a luxury, but I plan to stay in both systems - Canon more for sports and action, just with 2 zoom lenses, and evtl. with a longer lens ( I am interested in the 100-500), and the SL as my main system including zooms and primes.

I also must say, from first look, I am pretty impressed by the Canon IQ. I did expect a clear difference to Leica (in favor of Leica) - but so far it doesnt seem so much apart.

Menues and feel of the body...Leica seems more intuitive to me, and the SL body feels better in regards of materials and finish, but the R5 sits also very good in my hands.

I also love the new 70200 lenses from Canon, I hope Leica will also offer something comparable. The 90-280 is a great lens, but its 1700g! The Canon 70200 is less than half the weigt, and the 70200/2.8 is less than 1100g.

Is it worth to own a additional camera just for AF? For me I would say yes, but it really depends what subjects and activity you shoot.

If you dont own a nother system, you can also shoot nice action photos with SL! It just needs some more work and patience.

 

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[Ko.Fe.]

On 2/18/2022 at 7:24 PM, jrp said:

 I would like to be shoot family type photos reliably.

Practice.

With family you don't need heavy processor to predict where your kid is going to move. 

Also, 50mm is not the best family pictures lens, it was common in the past just because it was easy to mass produce. 

Use wide angle, get close and keep DOF sufficient, don't be sucked by useless shallow DOF, bokeh nonsense.

Invest in articulated head flash labeled as Leica and compatible with Leica camera you have. Learn how to bounce and balance with available light.