35mm - This is the way!

[IkarusJohn]

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18 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Thought you had the pre-ASPH (end of post #114). If so, assume v.2, as first version is rare.

Jeff

Quite right, Jeff - written in a hurry.  35 Summilux-M pre-asph v2

My issue with the pre-asph is the veiling flare and, to be honest, this whole thing of “Leica glow” leaves me a little cold.

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[IkarusJohn]

5 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

… To me the great thing about a 35mm for Leica is the pancake like size, super light weight, and beautiful rendering. The lux ASPH only has the beautiful rendering, but lacks everything else…therefore I would pick a pre-asph Summicron or Summilux 35mm over it. 

That being said, if you do prefer ASPH and want one lens, the Summilux is a much better option than the cron.

Thanks for the comment.  I haven’t had the Summilux ASPH (pre-FLE).  I’ve had two FLEs, and don’t really wish to go back there.  Many here love the ASPH, but I do recall (before the FLE was released), there was considerable comment about focus shift.  This has rather put me off.  I have seen comment here from some who prefer the ASPH to the FLE …

[shirubadanieru]

1 minute ago, IkarusJohn said:

Thanks for the comment.  I haven’t had the Summilux ASPH (pre-FLE).  I’ve had two FLEs, and don’t really wish to go back there.  Many here love the ASPH, but I do recall (before the FLE was released), there was considerable comment about focus shift.  This has rather put me off.  I have seen comment here from some who prefer the ASPH to the FLE …

Yeah my favorite lens of all time is the pre-asph Lux 35mm so, to me both FLE and pre-FLE ASPH are a no go My suggestion for 35mm is always go pre-asph, be it summilux or summicron (depending on the rendering you want)…that is if you are comfortable with glow wide open and soft corners until f4. 

[IkarusJohn]

4 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Yeah my favorite lens of all time is the pre-asph Lux 35mm so, to me both FLE and pre-FLE ASPH are a no go My suggestion for 35mm is always go pre-asph, be it summilux or summicron (depending on the rendering you want)…that is if you are comfortable with glow wide open and soft corners until f4. 

My quest is a companion to the pre-asph.

What does that mean?  Well, not too big (that counts out the Zeiss Distagon 35/1.4 and the Voigtlander APO Lanthar 35/1.4).  No veiling flare (I have that, and glow, with my pre-asph).  I don’t mind a little softness wide open, nor do I mind a bit of vignetting.  Preferably sharp from f/2.8 and reasonable across the frame.  Smooth bokeh, nice fall-off to out of focus.

Hmm, sounding like I wait for the APO Summicron …

Edited February 15, 2022 by IkarusJohn

[shirubadanieru]

Just now, IkarusJohn said:

My quest is a companion to the pre-asph.

What does that mean?  Well, not too big (that counts out the Zeiss Distagon 35/1.4 and the Voigtlander APO Lanthar 35/1.4).  No veiling flare (I have that, and glow, with my pre-asph).  I don’t mind a little softness wide open, nor do I mind a bit of vignetting.  Preferably sharp from f/2.8 and reasonable across the frame.

Hmm, sounding like I wait for the APO Summicron …

Ahah what about…Biogon 35mm f2.8? Apparently one of the sharpest lenses out there..our the summarit 35mm f2.5/2.4? The Nikkor 35mm f2.5 LTM is also surprisingly sharp despite being an older lens.

Or then the cron APO like you said, but price is quite significant especially if you are using it on an M camera, where you won’t be able to make use of the 0,3m close focus for most part. If you plan on using it on an SL this might be the best option.

[IkarusJohn]

4 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Ahah what about…Biogon 35mm f2.8? Apparently one of the sharpest lenses out there..our the summarit 35mm f2.5/2.4? The Nikkor 35mm f2.5 LTM is also surprisingly sharp despite being an older lens.

Or then the cron APO like you said, but price is quite significant especially if you are using it on an M camera, where you won’t be able to make use of the 0,3m close focus for most part. If you plan on using it on an SL this might be the best option.

Yep, considering the Biogon 35/2.8.  The close focus of the APO isn’t a problem, as I use the EVF as well as the OVF.

[Jeff S]

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8 hours ago, Dennis said:

You forgot to mention from the equation the Biogon 2.8/35 ZM .. It's a wow lens

Agree 100%. If so, one day. But I doubt it. Who knows... 

So big, not good at all with what I have in mind of M proportions and ratios. And I have the Biogon already. I'm fine

News coming very soon.

 

If I don't talk about IQ or render, it's my first 35mm choice, the default one. But this is because it's perfect for many reasons and is very good for others. But optically, it's very balanced, ergo, not unique. I value the lens for everything, not just for the IQ.

The same happens for the Biogon: it's so good, a stellar performer in almost any condition, no distortion, nearly no flare. Why don't use it everyday? What can you ask more? Well, a lot. I don't like 1/3 of stop f/stop, the tiny focus tab (knob?), the aesthetics, the 43 filter thread; it wobbles... But it's wow.
.
Dear John, as you can see, it's not one thing. It's all of this together. Having different options if one can appreciate the differences, can make the difference (excuse the repeated word). But it's me...

 

Another benefit of the Summicron ASPH is its simple and proven design, going back to 1997 (with minor update in 2016). The 35 APO, by comparison, is extremely complex due in part to its close focusing mechanics (which helps Leica justify the $8k+ price tag). I wonder if production issues, not just Covid supply chain issues, are contributing to delays.  And whether longer term there might be some associated servicing requirements due to design and manufacturing complexity.  The close focus capabilities are wasted on me anyway as a RF-only shooter with my M bodies. 

One of these days, I might demo the 35 APO to compare against my Summicron ASPH and FLE. I recall that after renting the 50 APO Summicron, I found that I preferred my 50 FLE, irrespective of cost.
 

My only complaints about the Summicron ASPH v.1 are its flaring tendencies and focus shift, both of which I’ve learned to accommodate (avoid).  But for a mere 800 bucks, I’ll probably try the Ultron II to see what the fuss is all about.  
 

At the end of the day, nobody will know or care which lens I used to make my pics/prints. For me, given the great quality of all these options, it often comes down to operational ease and enjoyment as much as any minor IQ differences.  I’ve never once heard anyone discuss the edge sharpness of my (rather smallish) prints. The pic either resonates or not.  But gear talk, and experimentation, is fun for us as users.

Jeff

[Dennis]

36 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

My only complaints about the Summicron ASPH v.1 are its flaring tendencies and focus shift, both of which I’ve learned to accommodate (avoid).  But for a mere 800 bucks, I’ll probably try the Ultron II to see what the fuss is all about.

The flare yes, sometimes can be intrusive, sometimes is "adorable" 😎 But in the severe conditions, it's there. About focus shift, I shoot a lot at f4 with the Cron and fortunately, my copy doesn't suffer from it.

36 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

At the end of the day, nobody will know or care which lens I used to make my pics/prints. For me, given the great quality of all these options, it often comes down to operational ease and enjoyment as much as any minor IQ differences.  I’ve never once heard anyone discuss the edge sharpness of my (rather smallish) prints. The pic either resonates or not.  But gear talk, and experimentation, is fun for us as users.

Agree
It's beautiful to enjoy each step of the process. And choosing the right lens it's a good start. But in the end, it's one part of it. And many preferences make the difference in the final product. It's captivating for us (passionate shooters) to choose the organic parts of the process and achieve our purpose. But I doubt that a viewer can tell the differences between Ultron II and Cron Asph I

Edited February 15, 2022 by Dennis

[Jeff S]

I stop down more often than not, so even I often don’t remember years later precisely which gear was used for a pic/print, especially after using multiple formats from 35mm to 8x10, film and digital, and 11 camera brands. When I’ve shown prints, nobody asks or cares, other than an occasional photographer, about gear.  There are so many variables in the camera/lens choice, shooting conditions and techniques, processing/editing, printing and display materials and conditions that even photographers who think they know lenses would likely fail blind testing.

Jeff

[crony]

7 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

 ... Then why not my favorite Summarit-M 2.5/35mm another excellent challenger 😉 so light so small, so good.

Hi, this is a very good, much underrated lens. I bought mine years ago, when no one wanted them...

A cool car (M9 - Summarit 2,5/35 ; f 2,5) :

 

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[giannis]

5 hours ago, crony said:

Hi, this is a very good, much underrated lens. I bought mine years ago, when no one wanted them...

 

And a very good, much underrated car I should add  

[matted]

10 hours ago, crony said:

Hi, this is a very good, much underrated lens. I bought mine years ago, when no one wanted them...

Do people want them now? I thought they were still the unwanted step children of the Leica line, other than by the few fans I see come out of the woodwork every now and then.

I bought my 35/2.5 years ago too, and love it for its small size, ergonomics, and sharpness/contrast. Perhaps similar to the ZM 35/2.8 Biogon in those respects, but at a higher price,  to be considered by many?

 

I am following this thread with great interest, as I would like to complement my Summarit with either something faster (such as the ZM 35/1.4 Distagon or perhaps one of the pre-ASPH Summiluxes), or something with a unique look. For me a focus tab (or at least the Zeiss nub) is a must. The LLL 35 looks like a very intriguing option, and I just may pick one up for a test. Not much faster than the Summarit, but cheap enough that I could even add a pre-ASPH Summilux or Distagon down the line.

And who knows? Maybe I'll slowly acquire enough 35's to trade for the 35 APO someday...

[a.noctilux]

51 minutes ago, matted said:

Do people want them now? I thought they were still the unwanted step children of the Leica line, other than by the few fans I see come out of the woodwork every now and then.

I bought my 35/2.5 years ago too, and love it for its small size, ergonomics, and sharpness/contrast. Perhaps similar to the ZM 35/2.8 Biogon in those respects, but at a higher price,  to be considered by many?

 

I am following this thread with great interest, as I would like to complement my Summarit with either something faster (such as the ZM 35/1.4 Distagon or perhaps one of the pre-ASPH Summiluxes), or something with a unique look. For me a focus tab (or at least the Zeiss nub) is a must. The LLL 35 looks like a very intriguing option, and I just may pick one up for a test. Not much faster than the Summarit, but cheap enough that I could even add a pre-ASPH Summilux or Distagon down the line.

And who knows? Maybe I'll slowly acquire enough 35's to trade for the 35 APO someday...

Go for the pre-FLE Summilux-M asph. if you can.

I never had to complain in use.

Focus shift on this lens can (or can not) accepted depending on one's taste and pictures.

[Jeff S]

50 minutes ago, matted said:

Do people want them now? I thought they were still the unwanted step children of the Leica line, other than by the few fans I see come out of the woodwork every now and then.

 

Leica Miami started a petition to bring back the Summarit M line, and it apparently has generated a fairly robust response.  We’ll see if Leica sees it the same way.  Signing a petition and buying a lens aren’t the same, and Leica likely has other rationale besides popularity, including price point, margins and effect on other product sales.  Funny how people often want what they can’t have.

Jeff

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, matted said:

And who knows? Maybe I'll slowly acquire enough 35's to trade for the 35 APO someday...

I wish you will get the 35 you need and want. And after make a good use of them, you will not even mention the Leica APO anymore 🙌 No need!

Now, let's shoot 35!!!

 

[Dennis]

48 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Something new and interesting I found out reading the LHSA interview on the Light Lens Lab 35.

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It would be very interesting an interview with the maker.

20 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Focus shift on this lens can (or can not) accepted depending on one's taste and pictures.

Knowing in advance that a lens is prone to (or "rich" [sarcasm] of ) focus shit, it's a NO to buy. 
When I'm shooting, my attention goes to many things. I don't want to add a technique to compensate for the shift. Just get another lens. I know it's easy to understand your lens, test it and find quick solutions. But anyway, it's more work to do. 
When I bought the 35mm Cron Asph v1, I knew the issue of a possible slight focus shift. Especially in one of my sweet spots: f4... I bought it. And fortunately, It doesn't suffer from it.

 

[otto.f]

32 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Go for the pre-FLE Summilux-M asph. if you can.

I never had to complain in use.

Focus shift on this lens can (or can not) accepted depending on one's taste and pictures.

With pain in my heart (don't take the drama too serious) I must say I agree. I has has a much smoother rendering in bo-keh, in colors and the type of sharpness. I sold it because I suffered from its focus shift, but the thing is that this was more a mental thing, an idée fixe, than that it disturbed me as a fact in the images; that was actually very relative.

Edited February 15, 2022 by otto.f

[crony]

1 hour ago, matted said:

1.Do people want them now? I thought they were still the unwanted step children of the Leica line, other than by the few fans I see come out of the woodwork every now and then.

I bought my 35/2.5 years ago too, and love it for its small size, ergonomics, and sharpness/contrast. Perhaps similar to the ZM 35/2.8 Biogon in those respects, but at a higher price,  to be considered by many?

 

I am following this thread with great interest, as 2.)I would like to complement my Summarit with either something faster (such as the ZM 35/1.4 Distagon or perhaps one of the pre-ASPH Summiluxes), or something with a unique look. For me a focus tab (or at least the Zeiss nub) is a must. The LLL 35 looks like a very intriguing option, and I just may pick one up for a test. Not much faster than the Summarit, but cheap enough that I could even add a pre-ASPH Summilux or Distagon down the line.

And who knows? Maybe I'll slowly acquire enough 35's to trade for the 35 APO someday...

Hi, sorry for my late answer. 

ad1) There is only one ebay offer at 1400 € from Portugal. They seem to be expensive and scarce ...

ad2)I have the Distagon, too. It is my best 35 out of 5, but I do not like using it so much because of its bulk. For me, M is about compactness ...

This is a matter of personal taste, of course ... ---

 

 

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[Dennis]

12 minutes ago, otto.f said:

I sold it because I suffered from its focus shift, but the thing is that this was more a mental thing

Everyone has a different approach w/ focus shift. But I don't know anyone who buys the lens because the focus shift only. I understand one buys a lens more prone to ghost flare; it's not necessarily a con. It could be a flattering addition, an opportunity. But focus shift ... no, please   

16 minutes ago, crony said:

)I have the Distagon, too. It is my best 35 out of 5, but I do not like using it so much because of its bulk. For me, M is about compactness ...

This is a matter of personal taste, of course ... ---

 

Maybe, if I would not own the CV 35/1.2III, I would probably have bought the distagon. Because both are in a BIG category, according to my preferences criteria.

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

It would be very interesting an interview with the maker.

Knowing in advance that a lens is prone to (or "rich" [sarcasm] of ) focus shit, it's a NO to buy. 
When I'm shooting, my attention goes to many things. I don't want to add a technique to compensate for the shift. Just get another lens. I know it's easy to understand your lens, test it and find quick solutions. But anyway, it's more work to do. 
When I bought the 35mm Cron Asph v1, I knew the issue of a possible slight focus shift. Especially in one of my sweet spots: f4... I bought it. And fortunately, It doesn't suffer from it.

 

This is what Internet can DO to real use.

The focus shift things are "well know" but never prevent thousands of photographers to use the lens happily.

I know that for some the "focus shift" prevents them from the other magnificent behaviors the lens can produce.

 

Since available (2004 ?) I had the titanium coated 35 asph Summilux-M (11859) at same time as 35 Cron asph., even if the Lux is bigger/heavier, I use the Lux far more.

 

I never need to compensate for focus shift.

I trust in the 35 Lux , as later I bought the same black for less weight AND sold all of my ex-loved three 35 Cron asph.

 

I don't want to convince anyone, I keep mine and will never sell this black 35 Lux asph.

This will be my last post in this thread.

 

I realize now that the lens choice is individual.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by a.noctilux