35mm - This is the way!

[RexGig0]

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I believe that the Zeiss Distagon 1,4/35mm ZM is very much worth carrying and using, in spite of its bulk. I was accustomed to DSLR lenses, when I added the Leica M system, and my first Leica M lens purchase was a Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, which is not small, for an M lens, so the Distagon 1,4/35mm ZM did not, and does not, seem notably burdensome. There are times, of course, that a truly smaller lens is desirable, so, I have a Summaron-M 3.5 cm f/3.5, which was probably the second M lens that I acquired, before I started buying ZM lenses. My Disagon and Summaron are not only different in size, but render totally different images. I have considered acquiring the smaller Zeiss 2,8/35mm ZM, which would not replace the Summaron, but offer another choice.

Buying Zeiss ZM lenses was an easy decision, because I already owned Zeiss ZE and ZF DSLR lenses, before I added the LEica M system.

For whatever reason, the 35mm Summicron and Summilux lenses had not seriously tempted me, until the APO Summicron-M 35mm ASPH was announced. I may never be able to justify spending that much money, on one lens, but, if I can do so, its close focusing capability is compelling. For now, the rarity of the APO Summicron-M 35mm ASPH keeps it out of my reach. It is comparatively easy to resist the urge to be put onto a lengthy wait-list, so, my retiremenrt savings are relatively safe.

[Dennis]

3 hours ago, kivis said:

Tried a lot of 35mm lenses. Current love is the CV Ultron II 35/2

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Yes, this lens is one of the next to arrive, not sure when. But It's ready to join the family. I know it's a bargain.

Do you find the OOF areas very swirling? How do you think is the bokeh wide open? 

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[Dennis]

3 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

My Distagon and Summaron are not only different in size, but render totally different images

Yes, I can only imagine. 

I know a few people (here in LUF) using the Distagon as main lens, and being happy, regardless weight and bulk. So I know it would be a great addition. But in a way or another, I think it's not that different to my stellar Biogon 2.8... And If I need 1.4, I already have the CV 35/1.2 III which is great @ 1.4. Plus I have the nokton classic, with another kind of rendering wide-open.

About the Summaron I don't know nothing yet, and have not expectations. So I will definitely find out more.

[Dennis]

3 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

For now, the rarity of the APO Summicron-M 35mm ASPH keeps it out of my reach. It is comparatively easy to resist the urge to be put onto a lengthy wait-list, so, my retiremenrt savings are relatively safe.

Agree. It would be great, but out of budget.

Keep saving

[kivis]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Yes, this lens is one of the next to arrive, not sure when. But It's ready to join the family. I know it's a bargain.

Do you find the OOF areas very swirling? How do you think is the bokeh wide open? 

OOF swirling????  Bokeh wide open is creamy and pleasant.

[otto.f]

7 hours ago, grahamc said:

35:2 v4 taken this morning since we have been chatting (M10-D) 

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I thought this thread was meant to illustrate your recommendation for a specific 35mm with a photo, you're the first who understood it like me, 👌

[shirubadanieru]

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6 hours ago, Dennis said:

Yes, the v4 whispers me from time to time haha. I always thought it could be a great match, especially loving the asph I.

I like you used the word "consistent". Like it. It's key

 

By the way if you love the 35 cron asph i doubt you will enjoy vintage leica glass. As a fan of all pre-asph lenses, by far my most hated leica lens is the 35 cron asph, it’s probably the only lens that even if someone gave it to me i would sell right away. If you like the asph, stick to it. The rendering you get from pre-asph is very very different. 

I of course prefer the pre-asph rendering since wide open you have a soft glow with beautiful bokeh and from f2.8/f4 they are super sharp. It’s always like having two lenses in one. The ASPH is just sharp at all apertures but has no distinct signature, but if you enjoy its rendering it’s best to avoid pre-asph lenses or voigtlander 35 1.4, etc.

Summaron f2.8 is still quite sharp starting at f2.8 already, so that might be the only one you could try.

[a.noctilux]

Dennis, you would have as many opinions (good or bad) as posters here.

So take one (or many more ! ) then try out by yourself.

It took me decades, trying out many 35mm lenses for M to learn that what I sought after can NOT exist.

But M pleasure can be found in searching and learning.

 

If your next is Summaron 35mm, you have many months (or years) to learn how to overcome their flaws, or just let it down

at first use, who knows.

 

My story of 35mm Summicron asph. first version is so often told.

I was happy user of many M pre-asph. 35mm lenses, since I came across the newly launched Cron asph., after trying out and loved the output a lot, I bought what was available,

so three colors (black, chrome, titanium coated ). I almost sold all the other 35mm for that.

But using them a lot, the first love became less and less true,finding out that those asph. lenses lack some "characters" or charms because of "almost perfect rendering".

What I loved ("almost perfection of the lens corrections" comparing to older Summicron lenses) became so boring that I sold them all (at big loss of money) to rebuy the older models.

 

Sad history is I'm always reconstructing my old lenses of 35mm set.

Never found the old Summilux 35mm pre-asph. in titanium coated, at acceptable price for example (I sold mine in 2009, 1,200€)

the one at right ...

 

 

[otto.f]

Here are three examples why I prefer the Summicron iv above the other 35's I have: the FLE and the Summaron. I recently bought the Ultron ii, but I am not ready to give a final judgement yet. First M8, then M9, then M10R. On all camera's I see full colors, yet neutral, punchy contrast yet not overdone, reminding me of the legendary Ektachrome 100 (EPP). Besides a pleasing bo-keh. 

 

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Edited February 6, 2022 by otto.f

[Dennis]

6 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

By the way if you love the 35 cron asph i doubt you will enjoy vintage leica glass. As a fan of all pre-asph lenses, by far my most hated leica lens is the 35 cron asph, it’s probably the only lens that even if someone gave it to me i would sell right away. If you like the asph, stick to it. The rendering you get from pre-asph is very very different. 

I of course prefer the pre-asph rendering since wide open you have a soft glow with beautiful bokeh and from f2.8/f4 they are super sharp. It’s always like having two lenses in one. The ASPH is just sharp at all apertures but has no distinct signature, but if you enjoy its rendering it’s best to avoid pre-asph lenses or voigtlander 35 1.4, etc.

Summaron f2.8 is still quite sharp starting at f2.8 already, so that might be the only one you could try.

Glad you mentioned it. Yes, I love the Cron Asph I, but I also like the glow wide open of the Nokton Classic, which I own and sometimes chosen as the only lens for a trip. Two lenses in one, a kind of different beast. Very different from other lenses, but still pleasant for my eyes. So yes, I'm aware of the Lux pre-asph character and render. I was already considered it, but not on the list yet because of its price. Time will tell.

5 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Dennis, you would have as many opinions (good or bad) as posters here.

So take one (or many more ! ) then try out by yourself.

It took me decades, trying out many 35mm lenses for M to learn that what I sought after can NOT exist.

But M pleasure can be found in searching and learning.

Exactly! No hurry at all. As you said, M pleasure in searching and learning 🏆

5 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

My story of 35mm Summicron asph. first version is so often told.

I was happy user of many M pre-asph. 35mm lenses, since I came across the newly launched Cron asph., after trying out and loved the output a lot, I bought what was available,

so three colors (black, chrome, titanium coated ). I almost sold all the other 35mm for that.

But using them a lot, the first love became less and less true,finding out that those asph. lenses lack some "characters" or charms because of "almost perfect rendering".

What I loved ("almost perfection of the lens corrections" comparing to older Summicron lenses) became so boring that I sold them all (at big loss of money) to rebuy the older models.

Often told maybe, but I didn't know it. I can see (understand) your point. To embrace the new asph lenses first, and then get bored that you came back when you started. It totally makes sense. That's why the journey for me just started. The best is yet to come!
.
A fellow user made me notice that, at least for the Summaron, of course, it would be silver. Auch! I will still be looking and learning and buying black lenses whenever I can. But where there will be no option, and a silver bargain will be available for me, then at this moment, It will be time to seriously consider it.
A dilemma... 

[Dennis]

3 hours ago, otto.f said:

Here are three examples why I prefer the Summicron iv above the other 35's I have: the FLE and the Summaron. I recently bought the Ultron ii, but I am not ready to give a final judgement yet. First M8, then M9, then M10R. On all camera's I see full colors, yet neutral, punchy contrast yet not overdone, reminding me of the legendary Ektachrome 100 (EPP). Besides a pleasing bo-keh. 

 

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Beautiful images, and render. Thank you for sharing.

yes, the Cron IV could be a must in my bag, and an excellent companion to my other 35s. It's not easy to find it. And price maybe around $4k?

[otto.f]

15 minutes ago, Dennis said:

around $4k?

a bit less, but has indeed gone skyhigh, in two years time from 1800$ up. I will post again if I know what I think about the Ultron ii

Edited February 6, 2022 by otto.f

[mon10a]

18 hours ago, Dennis said:

Any idea about the estimated price of a Lux v2? 

There is a very wide range of prices for v2 and they seem to still be going up(!). Again, I suggest you look for posts on this topic by @steven (no longer on this forum). From my memory, v2 includes:

• silver/chrome with brass infinity lock (reportedly the sharpest and way out of your price range)
• silver/chrome with aluminum infinity lock (way out of your price range)
• titanium (German) (reportedly very nice with a more controlled glow at large apertures and less flare) (probably out of your price range)
• black (Canada) (reportedly the most glow and possibly in your price range; I was looking for one of these and could not find a good copy when I had an opportunity to get a v1)

But, as mentioned previously in these posts, your CV 1.4 v2 will come fairly close, so you might want to find a more affordable lens with a different “look.”

Hope this helps.

m

[Dennis]

15 minutes ago, mon10a said:

There is a very wide range of prices for v2 and they seem to still be going up(!). Again, I suggest you look for posts on this topic by @steven (no longer on this forum). From my memory, v2 includes:

• silver/chrome with brass infinity lock (reportedly the sharpest and way out of your price range)
• silver/chrome with aluminum infinity lock (way out of your price range)
• titanium (German) (reportedly very nice with a more controlled glow at large apertures and less flare) (probably out of your price range)
• black (Canada) (reportedly the most glow and possibly in your price range; I was looking for one of these and could not find a good copy when I had an opportunity to get a v1)

But, as mentioned previously in these posts, your CV 1.4 v2 will come fairly close, so you might want to find a more affordable lens with a different “look.”

Hope this helps.

m

Thank you for this: more details of Lux v2 (versions)... Because I want a black lens and in my price range, maybe the Canada version is the only one in my price range. I never considered Lux before for two reasons: because the price first, then because I already have the CV 1.4 II 😉 

.

20 minutes ago, mon10a said:

But, as mentioned previously in these posts, your CV 1.4 v2 will come fairly close, so you might want to find a more affordable lens with a different “look.”

Hope this helps.

yes, this is the main point of the thread: the different look.

So far, the 35/2 LLL at about $1,300 makes totally sense. And of course the 35 Ultron II.

If I don't get a "good" used 35 Lux or Cron soon, I think the prices will raise and I won't do it in the future. Or it will not be as pleasant if I had done this before ...

I don't want live with regrets, let's buy one today 🤣

 

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

My vote, get something different from what you already possess.  You already have asphericals covered with both the Summicron and Ultron.  I had both those lenses and really liked the Ultron.  You have the big, super fast lens with the 1.2 Nokton.  You have the quasi pre-aspherical summilux with the 1.4 Nokton.  Love this lens, lots of character.  Not much difference I understand between single and multi coated.  You have the sharp, contrasty Zeiss ZM look covered with the Biogon.  What other unique looks are out there?  You could get the single 8-element summicron in the form of the Light Lens Lab replica.  Totally different image from what you already have.  I have one, it's nice.  High resolution.  You could get the six element second or third Summicron.  I actually liked the 3rd Summicron better then the vaunted "king of bokeh," when I owned both.   Those lenses are small, well within budget, and offer a look different from what you already possess.  Then you could go the LTM route too.  I understand the canon 35/2 ltm, is nice (and small).  Of course there's always the option of getting nothing and just use what you have, but that's wasn't the question asked.  

Edited February 7, 2022 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[grahamc]

12 hours ago, otto.f said:

Here are three examples why I prefer the Summicron iv above the other 35's I have: the FLE and the Summaron. I recently bought the Ultron ii, but I am not ready to give a final judgement yet. First M8, then M9, then M10R. On all camera's I see full colors, yet neutral, punchy contrast yet not overdone, reminding me of the legendary Ektachrome 100 (EPP). Besides a pleasing bo-keh. 

 

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These are great Otto.  I think I'm only just learning to use my 35:2 v4 properly tbh. These illustrate it's qualities perfectly 

Edited February 7, 2022 by grahamc

[Dennis]

35 minutes ago, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

My vote, get something different from what you already possess.  You already have asphericals covered with both the Summicron and Ultron.  I had both those lenses and really liked the Ultron.  You have the big, super fast lens with the 1.2 Nokton.  You have the quasi pre-aspherical summilux with the 1.4 Nokton.  Love this lens, lots of character.  Not much difference I understand between single and multi coated.  You have the sharp, contrasty Zeiss ZM look covered with the Biogon.  What other unique looks are out there?

You nailed it! Also great description. Unique and different from what I have already is essential.

38 minutes ago, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

You could get the single 8-element summicron in the form of the Light Lens Lab replica.  Totally different image from what you already have.  I have one, it's nice.  High resolution.  

Glad to know you like it. Another vote for the LLL ... 

38 minutes ago, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

Then you could go the LTM route too.

I don't even know how to search and which 35... I think I may have more than enough (many options) with M mount. LTM lenses are another kind of monster, right? 

 How can I know which 35 LTM is RF coupled to fully use OVF and 35mm M10 frame lines?... With an adapter, I guess it's like just a regular M-mount lens no 6-bit coded.

Not sure yet If i want to dive there ... Then I want to start to post on the "Old glass" thread  

 

[grahamc]

9 hours ago, Dennis said:

 

yes, the Cron IV could be a must in my bag, and an excellent companion to my other 35s. It's not easy to find it. And price maybe around $4k?

I think you can still find one fairly easily <3000 Dennis .  Possibly much less as even on the "worlds biggest auction site" they are 3K 

[Dennis]

Is this Summicron a good deal?

11309 .. is v2?

About $1,900 usd

https://www.jogeier.com/leitz-leica-m-summicron-2-35mm-11309-2739894-2110000813680

 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Dennis

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Dennis]

I finally made the decision.

The family will receive soon a brand new LLL 35/2 8-element black paint (V6LC) ... Still checking last details with Hong Kong 😎