Would you buy an EVF only M camera? [MERGED]

[ksrhee]

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Interesting article.

https://petapixel.com/2024/03/22/leica-selling-l-mount-cameras-is-tougher-than-selling-a-q-or-an-m/

Perhaps Leica should stick to its niche.  Sobering thought.

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[raizans]

Makes me think that maybe SL users should be more worried about the EVF-M than M users.

[sebben]

11 hours ago, ksrhee said:

Interesting article.

https://petapixel.com/2024/03/22/leica-selling-l-mount-cameras-is-tougher-than-selling-a-q-or-an-m/

Perhaps Leica should stick to its niche.  Sobering thought.

This is because they keep bringing out old technology at up to 3x the price. 
 

Look at the SL3. The sensor is around 4 years old already. When the camera is at the end of its cycle in 4 years it will be rocking an 8 year old sensor and processor.

Look at the price of the 50mm Summicron SL ASPH. The Panasonic version of it costs around $350USD and the image quality is essentially identical. 
 

All of this amidst a backdrop of a global recession where marketing and advertising budgets are being slashed. 

Edited March 24, 2024 by sebben

[FrozenInTime]

11 hours ago, ksrhee said:

Interesting article.

https://petapixel.com/2024/03/22/leica-selling-l-mount-cameras-is-tougher-than-selling-a-q-or-an-m/

Perhaps Leica should stick to its niche.  Sobering thought.

I think propping up the SL and L-mount sets the narrative behind any decision to hold back a EVF-M.

I owned the CL and SL2-S, and a suite of L-lenses, but ultimately they did not fit, so I sold up and drifted into Fuji for EVF and AF.

Fortunately I never sold out of the M system 

Still want a EVF-M, as adapted lenses on the SL2-S were great ; just the size and ergonomics not good. 

Being able to carry a M10 or MP and a EVF-M together covers a lot of bases in a small bag.

[Jeff S]

IBIS, weather sealing and a big EVF are important offsetting benefits (to size/weight) for my use of the SL system, none of which seem likely in an EVF-based M. While the latter could serve some role, I would not want to add another M if the SL kit remained.  My goal is to reduce gear, not add.

Jeff

[Edax]

22 hours ago, letitz said:

I already did. It was called the Fuji XPro3. And it had a dual evf/ovf finder. What would you like to know? Personally I like to shoot rangefinder cameras as they were meant to be shot. I don't like pretending or posing and I always felt that way with fhe XPro. That it was pretending to be something it wasn't. 

The Fuji XPro3 is NOT a rangefinder camera...  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangefinder_camera

[lct]

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7 hours ago, letitz said:

It's not. I said it was pretending to be. I know what a rangefinder is. 

May i ask where Fuji pretended the XPro3 or any other Fuji digital camera to be, or to have, a rangefinder? Just curious.

[adan]

Well, Fuji certainly "mimicked" the dominant generic appearance and feel of rangefinder cameras - no centered viewfinder hump on the top, transparent viewfinder window, set well off-center in the top right corner (as seen from the front) for maximum RF base-length. Most of the "signals" are there, at least in the X100 and XPro series.

Below is the generic "camera" icon available from this forum's own software. Based on appearance, is it most likely 1) an SLR/DSLR, 2) a mirrorless camera, or 3) a rangefinder camera?

(And don't mention a second RF window, unless you are prepared to swear or affirm under oath that there is no second window hidden behind the top-center silvery bar - which could be transparent as well 😁 )

📷

In the insect world, taking on the appearance of something else (mimicking the shape of a far-less appetizing stick of wood or a leaf, or the appearance of a more dangerous insect, can certainly be described as "pretending." Need we mention "a wolf in sheep's clothing?"

As well being as useful - it confuses creatures who might want to consume it (and photography enthusiasts are certainly camera-consumers 🤪 ). And in a camera, serves in other ways (often more ergonomic for right-eye-dominant/right-handed photographers).

If one believes that "pretence" only exists in words - one is confused. It is certainly true that Fujifilm never actually said their RF-shaped cameras contain rangefinders (AFAIK).

But Fuji didn't need to - the number of people even on these forums who think a Leica M (with an RF installed) can easily adopt what a XPro/X100 (with no RF taking up space inside) can do - based soley on appearance - appears to be fairly high (they are also, umm, confused 🤪 ).

(images linked from wikimedia).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimicry

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Edited March 31, 2024 by adan

[lct]

Hehe human beings let alone lawyers😱 don't behave exactly like insects so to pretend means to behave as if something is true when you know that it is not (link) for them/us😎

[ksrhee]

3 hours ago, lct said:

May i ask where Fuji pretended the XPro3 or any other Fuji digital camera to be, or to have, a rangefinder? Just curious.

I got the original Fuji X100 when it first came out (actually I still have it), and Fuji never claimed it to be a rangefinder camera or Leica knockoff.  However, you can't help but see the similarities between them.  In fact, when I took my Fuji X100 out to take pictures, people often asked if I had a Leica camera.  Of course, it is not the same.  Fuji does not use the rangefinder focus/view system, but it does have the window finder with the frame lines and parallax correction (part of the similarity).  I am sure Fuji did not mind the comparison or confusion, although I am not going to suggest whether it was intentional on their part to do it in the first place.

[adan]

1 hour ago, lct said:

human beings let alone lawyers😱 don't behave exactly like insects so to pretend means to behave as if something is true

If you are seriously confusing "external appearance" with "behavior," I think this part of the conversation is over. 👎

[lct]

22 minutes ago, adan said:

If you are seriously confusing "external appearance" with "behavior," I think this part of the conversation is over. 👎

I don't know what an internal appearance is, but I'll let you have the last word 👍

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, lct said:

I don't know what an internal appearance is, but I'll let you have the last word 👍

But presumably you can distinguish it from the quoted “external.”

Jeff 

[lct]

The point was to know if Fuji pretended that one of their camera is or has a rangefider. As per the explanations given above, and given the definition of the verb to pretend in English, it seems pretty obvious (to me) that Fuji did not pretend anything like that.

[pop]

.. pretending (making something more important than it is)