Would you buy an EVF only M camera? [MERGED]

[pgk]

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2 hours ago, ksrhee said:

I was talking to someone recently, and he said that you don't have to worry about framing and exposure these days since he can crop and adjust them in post-processing in the digital era.  I guess his mentality is just to shoot and fix it later. 

If you never learn to 'see' a composition how can you 'fix' it later?

[ksrhee]

1 hour ago, algrove said:

Compatible yes, but not all the benefits accrue to M10 use.

What do you mean not all the benefits?  What's missing?

[evikne]

If Leica could create an EVF with a digital virtual RF split image overlay on top of the "regular" image that showed the true depth of field, we'd have the best of both worlds. 

Edited March 21, 2024 by evikne

[algrove]

2 hours ago, ksrhee said:

What do you mean not all the benefits?  What's missing?

No IBIS support for focusing. Here's someone's comments after getting one for his M10.

"So, bought a Viso 2 for my M10-P. Soon realized that, although it’s a 3.7mp display, it only functions as a 2.4mp display with the M10.

This manifests as a smaller image. A LOT smaller. More eye relief than you may ever use, but for instance, with a 50 its image is WAY SMALLER than what you see through the .73 finder. 
Went back to Tamarkin in Chicago today and compared it with the 020, where the image size is slightly larger than the one through the optical finder.

Way, way better for me. I mean, with a 21 everything was so small I could hardly make out what the heck was in the frame. 
Now, with the 020 (where 2.4mp fills the field) no problem."

Edited March 21, 2024 by algrove

[ksrhee]

5 minutes ago, algrove said:

No IBIS support for focusing. Here's someone's comments after getting one for his M10.

"So, bought a Viso 2 for my M10-P. Soon realized that, although it’s a 3.7mp display, it only functions as a 2.4mp display with the M10.

This manifests as a smaller image. A LOT smaller. More eye relief than you may ever use, but for instance, with a 50 its image is WAY SMALLER than what you see through the .73 finder. 
Went back to Tamarkin in Chicago today and compared it with the 020, where the image size is slightly larger than the one through the optical finder.

Way, way better for me. I mean, with a 21 everything was so small I could hardly make out what the heck was in the frame. 
Now, with the 020 (where 2.4mp fills the field) no problem."

Thanks for clarifying.  Well, that doesn't help at all.  

[algrove]

1 minute ago, ksrhee said:

Thanks for clarifying.  Well, that doesn't help at all.  

Yes, that's what I meant by missing benefits.

[algrove]

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BTW, it is a lovely piece of gear on an M11 or M11M when you for instance have a new M lens with close focus which only close focuses for you to see what's in focus while using the Viso2.

That is one reason I do believe some sort of a small camera that can take M, MF lenses will eventually be introduced since now 3 close focus lenses exist where one requires the Viso2 to use the close focus feature.

Edited March 21, 2024 by algrove

[raizans]

2 hours ago, evikne said:

If Leica could create an EVF with a digital virtual RF split image overlay on top of the "regular" image that showed the true depth of field, we'd have the best of both worlds. 

Like Fuji’s digital split image?

[lct]

Only question is how many people are ready to pay Leica prices for an M-mount camera sans RF. Funny so many naysayers prefer discussing the meaning of M-mount BTW. Lack of imagination?😄

 

[evikne]

15 minutes ago, raizans said:

Like Fuji’s digital split image?

Maybe. I haven’t seen it.

[evikne]

2 hours ago, raizans said:

Like Fuji’s digital split image?

I didn't know it already existed, but I read a bit about it now. And yes, this is quite similar to what I imagined. Just put Leica's version of this into the viewfinder of the EVF-M and we're as close as it gets to the analog feel.

[lct]

2 hours ago, raizans said:

Like Fuji’s digital split image?

The result would be the worst of both worlds according to Leica.

https://www.macfilos.com/2022/10/18/leicas-stefan-daniel-on-the-retirement-of-the-leica-cl-and-some-hints-for-the-future/#comments

[evikne]

13 minutes ago, lct said:

The result would be the worst of both worlds according to Leica.

https://www.macfilos.com/2022/10/18/leicas-stefan-daniel-on-the-retirement-of-the-leica-cl-and-some-hints-for-the-future/#comments

I think he talks about an analog RF combined with a digital viewfinder. I was thinking of a digital simulation of a RF, so not a hybrid.

Edited March 21, 2024 by evikne

[lct]

1 minute ago, evikne said:

I think he talks about an analog RF combined with a digital viewfinder. I was thinking of a digital simulation of a RF.

Ouch too complicated for me. The project submitted to Leica is an M-mount camera with an EVF instead of the RF. Bis repetita placent...or not 😉

[adan]

15 hours ago, raizans said:

In anticipation of users who prefer focusing wide angle lenses with a rangefinder:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Ahh - the classic LUF solution to any question - "Buy More Accessories."

[adan]

15 hours ago, algrove said:

Yes it is the desire of Leica to do it, when it makes sense to them and us their market.

I think Leica has been "diplomatic" in its comments regarding an EVF M

Diplomacy having been defined by Will Rogers as "frequently consisting of soothingly saying “nice doggie” - until you have a chance to pick up a rock to throw."

😉

[lct]

Hard to imagine Leica throwing a rock to the Leica Society International but i don't remember who said that diplomacy is the art of telling people to go to hell in such a way that they ask for directions😇

[yae]

I would be more interested in a different kind of EVF -- one which can function in two distinct modes. 

1. The first mode would be the same as the current Visoflex EVFs, image straight from the sensor. 
2. The second mode would be akin to the Q2, with a frame line button perhaps to alternate which frame lines overlayed (in the same pairings as we have in the rangefinder OVF)

This way a feeling of "seeing beyond the frame" is achieved, which to me is one of the things that makes rangefinder shooting so great. I am not sure how Leica would manage this, or indeed if it is even possible. 

Other clear requirements would be a higher resolution (in excess of, or at least, the current 5.76mp seen in the SL cameras), with a refresh rate to match. If only (1) can be achieved, it would still be a great improvement over the current options and perhaps be enough to satiate both those who wish for an EVF M and those who prefer the traditional approach. 

An EVF model like this would require corresponding changes in the M camera of the future; however, I see this direction to be the best "middle ground" -- one which preserves the traditional rangefinder experience and offers a more robust EVF experience for those who wish to use it. With the purchase of this EVF, you can essentially have an "EVF M". 

Would love to hear what others think, if anyone has any additional ideas to add or problems they see with this path?  

[lct]

39 minutes ago, yae said:

Would love to hear what others think

Not sure you'd like it but the least Leica brings anything new to current M cameras the more chance we have to see an EVF-M in my most humble opinion. YMMV.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[ksrhee]

Hopefully Leica does something to satisfy everyone.  Two thoughts.  First, what makes the Leica M unique or provide the unique experience for the users?  I for one is the traditional ranger finder tools and experience.  Given how much Leica costs, I could have easily bought other camera and lenses to go along with it.  This is the Leica's niche and what makes it attractive to others.  Second, it has to make the economical sense.  Leica won't make something that might cannibalize the traditional M line or create a new line with insufficient buyers.  That would be an economical suicide for a small company such as Leica. Right now, we have the add-on.  So, if people want to add the EVF option to their M, they can do so.  Anyway, nobody can read the future, and only time will tell what will happen in the future . . .

Edited March 22, 2024 by ksrhee