A running tally of M11 complaints so far

[elmars]

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Edited January 23, 2022 by elmars

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[elmars]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb M Journey:

was this with EVF or live view on?

No, only 3 sec auto review. 

[elmars]

vor 50 Minuten schrieb M Journey:

was this with EVF or live view on?

Here is what I wrote earlier about EVF usage:

"On Wednesday I took a walk of 1/12 hours, the camera was on all the time, I always used the EVF, I took 80 photos. This took 40 - 45 % battery power."

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, elmars said:

I did another test:

I took 60 photos in 1 hour, 1 photo each minute. Auto review was set to 3 sec. After 1 hour 90 % battery charge was left. This confirms what I said earlier: Most power is taken from just being on. Being on takes 10 % battery power each hour. Shooting (and even short reviewing of 3 sec for each picture) takes not much power. Even if You assume 15 % per hour, You have a steady use of nearly seven hours. I think this we can call a whole days use.

So I have nothing to complain. Please don´t count me in for a battery problem.

and what about the LCD brightness?

[shirubadanieru]

34 minutes ago, 01maciel said:

Interesting. Could you repeat the test and shoot DNG L-Size images? I suppose when shoothing M or S-size the entire photo gets recalculated and downscaled and requires a lot of CPU time. CPU time means battery drain. This process is quite similar to a well known technology in smartphones having more than 40MP. It looks to me like a Leica innovation which popped out of the Huawei smartphone camera partnership. 

That’s interesting…and if that’s what’s causing a faster than expected battery drain I’ll sell the M11 to any interested person here ahah because I will not shoot 60MP DNGs…I bought this camera to shoot at S or M DNGs, and from the reviews / Leica announcements shooting at these settings has no decremental impact (it actually offers DR benefits from what was written) but yeah…the battery rated at 1700 shots on rangefinder is simply outstanding, what we are getting is FAR FAR from that. Really hope my battery is faulty, but hard to tell…what I know is that for me to get 1700 shots I’d need 7 days at least because I never shoot more than 200 shots. That means that I should be getting very little battery loss shooting the way I do (no LV, no screen review, go to sleep after 5min~10min, no checking photos on screen) but it hasn’t been the case : / this camera is just too buggy…not very happy with it, miss my M9P  

[shirubadanieru]

47 minutes ago, elmars said:

Here is what I wrote earlier about EVF usage:

"On Wednesday I took a walk of 1/12 hours, the camera was on all the time, I always used the EVF, I took 80 photos. This took 40 - 45 % battery power."

This seems really way off the stated performance once again in all reviews, which should be the bare minimum capacity expected (ie w/ LV 700 shots). If you are ok with this battery life that’s totally fine, it’s your camera, but I certainly am not happy that the claims and what I’m getting are vastly different. I never use LV so can’t test it in this scenario, but I was reading all the reviews again and as stated here https://petapixel.com/2022/01/13/leica-m11-first-impressions-review/ :

“The new 1800 mAh battery — up from M10’s 1100 mAh and the same capacity as the M240 battery — provides about 63.6% more capacity compared to its predecessor. Given the 210 shot CIPA battery rating of the M10, I expected a decent, but not huge, increase in battery life. Instead, I was shocked. Whatever Leica has done here in terms of power efficiency, much of it likely owing to the new MAESTRO III processor, is nothing short of incredible. The M11 is CIPA rated for about 700 shots (in live-view) and rated for about 1,700 in “Leica Adapted Shooting Style” (using the rangefinder). I firmly trust both figures at a minimum. In the time I had the camera, I only charged the battery once, and it’s quite possible I may not have needed to do that.

(…) CIPA is evaluating battery performance is badly in need of updating, and any numbers it provides tend to be woefully below actual performance.”

Edited January 23, 2022 by shirubadanieru

[elmars]

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vor 45 Minuten schrieb frame-it:

and what about the LCD brightness?

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[elmars]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb shirubadanieru:

This seems really way off the stated performance once again in all reviews, which should be the bare minimum capacity expected (ie w/ LV 700 shots). If you are ok with this battery life that’s totally fine, it’s your camera, but I certainly am not happy that the claims and what I’m getting are vastly different. I never use LV so can’t test it in this scenario, but I was reading all the reviews again and as stated here https://petapixel.com/2022/01/13/leica-m11-first-impressions-review/ :

“The new 1800 mAh battery — up from M10’s 1100 mAh and the same capacity as the M240 battery — provides about 63.6% more capacity compared to its predecessor. Given the 210 shot CIPA battery rating of the M10, I expected a decent, but not huge, increase in battery life. Instead, I was shocked. Whatever Leica has done here in terms of power efficiency, much of it likely owing to the new MAESTRO III processor, is nothing short of incredible. The M11 is CIPA rated for about 700 shots (in live-view) and rated for about 1,700 in “Leica Adapted Shooting Style” (using the rangefinder). I firmly trust both figures at a minimum. In the time I had the camera, I only charged the battery once, and it’s quite possible I may not have needed to do that.

(…) CIPA is evaluating battery performance is badly in need of updating, and any numbers it provides tend to be woefully below actual performance.”

Please use Your brain (sorry I have to say this so clear): Different use, different battery drain. Don´t trust any reviewers, go out shooting Your way and see if battery life is sufficient to You. If not sell the M11.

[shirubadanieru]

9 minutes ago, elmars said:

Please use Your brain (sorry I have to say this so clear): Different use, different battery drain. Don´t trust any reviewers, go out shooting Your way and see if battery life is sufficient to You. If not sell the M11.

If we can’t trust the reviewers or the Leica claims, or the CIPA tests..then, what is the purpose of any of them existing? They are there to guide us in our purchases, so if we can’t trust them, then it makes no sense to me. But anyway, enough with this discussion. The reality is, my battery is far, far, far from any of the claims from Leica or most reviewers experience. Yours seems to be too. I care about it, you don’t seem to care about it. Fair enough, each to their own. 

Now I just need to know if this is a bug or a faulty battery; if so, I’ll get a replacement. If this is as it should be, then I will indeed return the M11.

Edited January 23, 2022 by shirubadanieru

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said:

If we can’t trust the reviewers or the Leica claims, or the CIPA tests..then, what is the purpose of any of them existing? They are there to guide us in our purchases, so if we can’t trust them, then it makes no sense to me.

depends..for example: for my EOS RP CIPA rating is approx 250 shots and crap battery, i usually get around 400 shots and no battery issues, but then i use only Manual focus lenses, and keep the LCD brightness low because i don't check images after each shot

for the SL601 i used to get over 800++ in a 8 hour day...sometimes youtube reviews are not accurate, mainly because everyone uses the camera differently.

Edited January 23, 2022 by frame-it

[M9reno]

Whenever I buy a new phone I rarely pay any attention to the reported battery performance, simply because I have found it so different from real-life performance in the past.  Clearly the M11 battery is big, hence will probably last significantly longer than the M10’s under most circumstances, but that’s as much as I think can reliably be said.

[tashley]

Right: I just shot an entire series at different ISO with pixel binning at full/med/small resolutions and using Fotos app on iPhone to set the resolution and trigger the shots. Imported them into LR and they were all the same resolution. SO there's a bug in Fotos that seems to but in fact does not allow the selection of resolution.

As I put my tripod away I said to myself - 'this is Leica. There will be something wrong with this and I will have to shoot it again.... don't shorten he legs and tighten them..' 

So I'm all set to shoot it again. Grrrr...

[budjames]

My only complaint is that I haven't got mine yet! 😁

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography.

[tashley]

And another bug, even more irritating: I shot the entire series again, some 30 odd frames, and they display correctly in the camera but both LR Classic and LR Mobile see them as being upside down and want to import them as such. Again, Grrrr...

Edited January 23, 2022 by tashley

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, shirubadanieru said:

If we can’t trust the reviewers or the Leica claims, or the CIPA tests..then, what is the purpose of any of them existing? They are there to guide us in our purchases, so if we can’t trust them, then it makes no sense to me. But anyway, enough with this discussion. The reality is, my battery is far, far, far from any of the claims from Leica or most reviewers experience. Yours seems to be too. I care about it, you don’t seem to care about it. Fair enough, each to their own. 

Now I just need to know if this is a bug or a faulty battery; if so, I’ll get a replacement. If this is as it should be, then I will indeed return the M11.

I know I asked you before, Did you reset you camera setting and try again?

most of us try all the menus and change setting when we get something new... that can affect performance....

 

I went out shooting 300 or so photos yesterday and my battery is at 80%.  most of the battery estimates with many frames is when taking lots of photos in a short time. It seams to be more efficient then taking a pix every 15min and looking at the menu all the time.

the camera was a sleep all night, not off, and this morning is still 80%

[M9reno]

Also, I am not sure if this has been discussed:  ambient temperature.  Shooting outside in Japan in winter is going to result in different battery performance from Switzerland in summer.  Too many variables at play here to depend too much on precise times or exposure numbers.

[shirubadanieru]

1 minute ago, Photoworks said:

I know I asked you before, Did you reset you camera setting and try again?

most of us try all the menus and change setting when we get something new... that can affect performance....

 

I went out shooting 300 or so photos yesterday and my battery is at 80%.  most of the battery estimates with many frames is when taking lots of photos in a short time. It seams to be more efficient then taking a pix every 15min and looking at the menu all the time.

the camera was a sleep all night, not off, and this morning is still 80%

Hi, yes I tried to reset it and my shooting style is like film (everything live view related off, no foundling with the menus once it’s set up once, no use of Exp. Comp. nor any of the other fn buttons. All screen related settings too are off, such as reviewing images, and so forth. Brightness is set to lowest). 

My camera is set to shoot the closest possible to a film Leica, which means that from a battery standpoint I should be getting way more out of the battery than the ‘regular user’ in the reviews or in Leica’s claims (1700 shots in rangefinder mode). Your use seems to be accurate, 300 shots = 20% of battery, meaning that if you continue you at that rate you’d get 1500 shots before the battery runs out. 

For my case, 300 shots = 60% of battery, meaning I’d get less than 600 shots.

[Photoworks]

12 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Hi, yes I tried to reset it and my shooting style is like film (everything live view related off, no foundling with the menus once it’s set up once, no use of Exp. Comp. nor any of the other fn buttons. All screen related settings too are off, such as reviewing images, and so forth. Brightness is set to lowest). 

My camera is set to shoot the closest possible to a film Leica, which means that from a battery standpoint I should be getting way more out of the battery than the ‘regular user’ in the reviews or in Leica’s claims (1700 shots in rangefinder mode). Your use seems to be accurate, 300 shots = 20% of battery, meaning that if you continue you at that rate you’d get 1500 shots before the battery runs out. 

For my case, 300 shots = 60% of battery, meaning I’d get less than 600 shots.

that is 16 rolls of film, aren't you happy you are not buying film? maybe you can afford a 2nd battery

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Hallo,

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[jonoslack]

14 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Thank you! your battery life seems indeed to be what I was expecting. Will have to go to Leica, it seems my battery or my camera are faulty. In a similar day as yours, of walking two hours, power saving set to ten minutes, and shooting (on single burst mode) about 100 shots it used 60% so indeed this is strange. In 3 days of very light use I've had to charge it 3 times already.

@elmars your battery seems to drain as fast as mine, & much faster than all reviews & leicas statement. you might wanna have it checked too. 

Hi There 

I'm sure that @elmarswould agree with me that there were many situations in the testing phase where it looked like it might be something wrong with the camera . . . . but it never was! There are so many different ways of shooting, and there are so many different ways of setting up the camera as well - As I said, my camera is set with power saving switched off, so it never goes to sleep - I also have Auto-Review OFF.  I haven't done any very specific testing under rigorous conditions. I think also that it would be hard for Leica to do the same with your camera.

Critical issue seems to me - can you shoot for a day with it switched on all day and sleep turned off - because if you can, then surely it's just like one's phone - you plug it in overnight and it's charged in the morning (much quicker than that in fact). I have mine on my bedside table with the USB-C slot just over the edge (so I can't see the green flashing light at night!). If I go out for an extended high volume shoot I take a power pack with me, but I've never needed to use it.

I'd think hard before you send it back - because I can't see what your dealer can do - so it'll have to be sent off and you'll be without it for a long time! Why not get another battery and see if that behaves the same way (if it doesn't you can send back the original battery). 

I am actually going to do some serious 'beat it up' testing later on today, but I still doubt if it will clarify things that much. 

All the best

Jono

[jonoslack]

25 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

Hi, yes I tried to reset it and my shooting style is like film (everything live view related off, no foundling with the menus once it’s set up once, no use of Exp. Comp. nor any of the other fn buttons. All screen related settings too are off, such as reviewing images, and so forth. Brightness is set to lowest). 

My camera is set to shoot the closest possible to a film Leica, which means that from a battery standpoint I should be getting way more out of the battery than the ‘regular user’ in the reviews or in Leica’s claims (1700 shots in rangefinder mode). Your use seems to be accurate, 300 shots = 20% of battery, meaning that if you continue you at that rate you’d get 1500 shots before the battery runs out. 

For my case, 300 shots = 60% of battery, meaning I’d get less than 600 shots.

One thing I am certain of is that the main power drain is having the camera switched on (not taking pictures) and I'm not convinced that it makes that much difference if it's asleep - especially if you wake it up frequently. 

I don't think @elmars meant that reviewers were untrustworthy, but that by using the camera differently they will get different results with things such as battery life. In your case there are, it seems to me; Two possibilities

1. The way you are using the camera does not maximise battery life or

2. There is something wrong with your camera or battery.

It's impossible to tell which things will maximise battery life (or minimise it) and your inference that your usage is minimising it might be quite wrong (this stuff is very complex). 

Why not try Elmar's test:

4 hours ago, M Journey said:

I took 60 photos in 1 hour, 1 photo each minute. Auto review was set to 3 sec. After 1 hour 90 % battery charge was left. This confirms what I said earlier: Most power is taken from just being on. Being on takes 10 % battery power each hour. Shooting (and even short reviewing of 3 sec for each picture) takes not much power

If you do the same, do you get the same result?

If so it's probably 1 

All the best