Split grade printing, what technique(s) do you use?

[Xícara de Café]

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Hello,

I've been doing some printing recently with Ilford multigrade FB paper/chemicals and Kodak Polymax filters. In the past, I've mainly done split-grade printing "the Ilford way", which, if I'm not wrong, involves doing timed-interval test strips with the #2.5 and selecting the best exposure as a starting point for subsequent tests. A second strip is then exposed with the #0 and then the #5 filter with each exposure timed at half that of the selected  exposure in the first trial. From there, times are jiggled in further tests to achieve the desired result in the shadows and highlights, sometimes even replacing the #0 filter with a higher numbered filter to achieve more contrast. I also tried using time-interval strips for the #0 and #5 filters independently, then combining the best times from both tests in on a new strip using both filters. I don't remember where I saw this technique but I did not like it very much as the low-contrast #0 filter also contributes to the shadows and the results, for me, were invariably too dark. Wasted a lot of test strips with this.

Most recently I've done timed-interval test strips first with the #5 filter, then selecting the interval with the best blacks as a basis to test the highlights (although erring on the lighter side to avoid further darkening with the later additions of the low-contrast filters). A second strip is exposed with the #5 filter at the selected time and then timed exposures are done to this strip with the the #0 filter. The interval with the best highlights, in combination with the effects of the #5 filter, is chosen and further tests and adjustments are made from there. I found that I was able to arrive at the correct exposure/contrast more quickly and with less waste with this last technique.

I wonder what split-grade techniques are used by people on the forum and why? Are there some here that reject it all together?

Cheers and a very happy new year to everyone!

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[Pyrogallol]

Good luck with what you are doing. I have never gone into it in the detail you have, perhaps I should. 

I don’t know what the Kodak filters are like but if you are trying to follow Ilford recommendations would it not be easier to use Ilford filters to be sure of what grades you are obtaining?

I use the colour head filters in my Durst enlargers and a set of below the lens Ilford filters on my large format enlarger.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Pyrogallol

[Michael Hiles]

Generally, I start by doing a “highlight” test strip with the 0 filter (Ilford) to nail down the highlights exposure.

I then do a test strip for the shadows. I expose using the 0 filter for the time found as above, then the ranges of times with the 5 filter. This process leaves me with the two times for the 0 and 5 filters.

I then make a work print. I may then have to adjust the times, and possibly changing the 0 filter for a higher contrast filter. This starts usually with a judgement call. In that context, I make another work print. If I deem it necessary, I may make new test strips with small intervals. 

I find this gets me very close to, or exactly, where I want to be.

I love this split grade process. Very powerful.
 

[Xícara de Café]

2 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

I don’t know what the Kodak filters are like but if you are trying to follow Ilford recommendations would it not be easier to use Ilford filters to be sure of what grades you are obtaining?

I'm sure that you're right. When I was setting up  my darkroom the Kodak filters were all I could find. They seem to work and I'd read somewhere that they're much the same but will change over one day when I see a set for a good price (things are expensive here at the moment!). I guess from your forum name that you must use the pyrogallol staining developers - I use PMK a lot. I've read that the stain can interfere a little with split grade printing, but I haven't experienced any real problems, I don't think.

1 hour ago, Michael Hiles said:

Generally, I start by doing a “highlight” test strip with the 0 filter (Ilford) to nail down the highlights exposure.

I then do a test strip for the shadows. I expose using the 0 filter for the time found as above, then the ranges of times with the 5 filter.

Interesting. It's basically the opposite of what I've been doing recently. Perhaps the incremental addition of high-contrast (ie. #5) exposures interferes less with the chosen highlight rendering than the low contrast (#0) does with the shadows. Will try this next!

Cheers

Edited December 31, 2021 by Xícara de Café

[Ornello]

You don't need to do this, just stick to #3 filter for everything.

[M.Hilo]

20 hours ago, Xícara de Café said:

( I wonder what split-grade techniques are used by people on the forum and why? Are there some here that reject it all together? )

I don't reject split-grade printing. I just never used it.

Multigrade paper gave us more possibilities, sure. And I am sure so does splitgrade printing. But if I could go back to printing on graded papers, I would. Because the papers had more of everything that matters to me: a deeper contrast, more silver, more soul. I was doing fine on graded papers. I am still doing fine on multigrade papers, but less so compared to Agfa Record Rapid or Agfa Brovira. It's no big deal because my work still sells and I still live of photography. That does not depend on the paper we use or the techniques we made ourselves comfortable with.

What also plays in my case is that I never saw a reason to change from the condenser heads and the opal bulbs. From that I get the kind of prints I like, full of contrast with enough information. Sometimes getting to the right print is a fight and difficult. I enjoy that and I certainly don't mind it.

So, I have concentrated on buying enough shortneck opal bulbs 150 and 250 watt for my enlargers that need this shorter bulb. I got enough 150watt regular opal bulbs; and enough 200 and 300 watt lamps for the large Durst enlargers. These nearly 20cm long opal bulbs are no longer made. Luckily I have enough now.

Perhaps not much of an answer, but closer than that I don't manage.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by M.Hilo

[Xícara de Café]

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1 hour ago, M.Hilo said:

Perhaps not much of an answer, but closer than that I don't manage.

An excellent perspective. I hadn't realised that the graded might no longer exist. Has it ceased to be made entirely? The quality/depth of older prints that one sees in museums is certainly a striking thing.

While you're here, do you have a lamp recommendation for a Leitz Focomat 1c? I have been using a LED lamp with 3k colour temperature and realise that this is not ideal.

[M.Hilo]

6 hours ago, Xícara de Café said:

While you're here, do you have a lamp recommendation for a Leitz Focomat 1c? I have been using a LED lamp with 3k colour temperature and realise that this is not ideal.

Which Focomat Ic do you have? The round head version, or the oval head version with (the possibility of) the filter tray?

 

[Xícara de Café]

26 minutes ago, M.Hilo said:

Which Focomat Ic do you have? The round head version, or the oval head version with (the possibility of) the filter tray?

 

The black round headed one without a filter tray or any slot for one. This one:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Xícara de Café

[M.Hilo]

 

For your Ic, best would be to find the so-called shortneck 75 or 150watt opal bulbs of the past. These lamps were about 10.5cm long. Brands were Osram and Durst. The more known opal bulbs were made by Philips, these were about 11.8cm long and these work better in the Oval head Ic with the filter tray.

Dr. Fischer still makes the short neck version for Europe. Check out Foto Impex in Berlin. You have 230 or 240 volts, right? If not, you need to buy these opal bulbs in the US. There the bulbs are PH211 (75w), PH212 (150w) and PH 213 (250w). But I think these will be the longer version. If you ever come across photoshops that sell some analog equipment, ask if they have old enlarger bulbs.

I could ask a friend in Sao Paulo, he has the same enlarger as you have.

Your bulb, as it is now, is positioned too low. Generally one must pull up the socket all the way, and perhaps lower slightly.

 

[M.Hilo]

15 minutes ago, M.Hilo said:

 

For your Ic, best would be to find the so-called shortneck 75 or 150watt opal bulbs of the past. These lamps were about 10.5cm long. Brands were Osram and Durst. The more known opal bulbs were made by Philips, these were about 11.8cm long and these work better in the Oval head Ic with the filter tray.

Dr. Fischer still makes the short neck version for Europe. Check out Foto Impex in Berlin. You have 230 or 240 volts, right? If not, you need to buy these opal bulbs in the US. There the bulbs are PH211 (75w), PH212 (150w) and PH 213 (250w). But I think these will be the longer version. If you ever come across photoshops that sell some analog equipment, ask if they have old enlarger bulbs.

I could ask a friend in Sao Paulo, he has the same enlarger as you have.

Your bulb, as it is now, is positioned too low. Generally one must pull up the socket all the way, and then perhaps lower slightly.

 

 

[Xícara de Café]

1 hour ago, M.Hilo said:

Your bulb, as it is now, is positioned too low. Generally one must pull up the socket all the way, and perhaps lower slightly.

Yes, well noticed. An old photo, it's now in the fully raised position for some time now. I tried to lengthen the exposure times.

1 hour ago, M.Hilo said:

I could ask a friend in Sao Paulo, he has the same enlarger as you have.

If you wouldn't mind, that would be excellent, thank you, perhaps your friend will know of a local supplier.

I'll check Dr Fischer, thanks a lot for the references. Yes, 220V in Brasilia but power varies a lot from city to city. I have a couple of transformers handy for other voltages.

[Alan Siqueira]

On 1/1/2022 at 5:26 PM, Xícara de Café said:

The black round headed one without a filter tray or any slot for one. This one:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

I'm from Brazil too. Just bought one of these. I'm loving to use. i'm doing like Michael said above: i do the highlights with the 0 filter then a test stripe with the 0 and grades with the 5. It works

[Ornello]

Are there some here that reject it all together?

 

Si!

Edited January 4, 2022 by Ornello

[Alan Siqueira]

Xicara de café, how are you using the filters? above or under the lens?

[Xícara de Café]

7 hours ago, Alan Siqueira said:

Xicara de café, how are you using the filters? above or under the lens?

Under. The Kodak filter kit that I have comes with a sliding ring attachment that clamps nicely onto the 1c:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I sit the filters on this ring directly. There is a second filter tray in the kit that clips onto the ring and this would hold the filters more securely. I couldn't get it to fit properly, however, because of the way the 1c is built, so I don't use it. It would be possible to cut one of the corners to make it fit but I didn't bother. Here is the tray:

Edited January 5, 2022 by Xícara de Café

[Alan Siqueira]

5 hours ago, Xícara de Café said:

Under. The Kodak filter kit that I have comes with a sliding ring attachment that clamps nicely onto the 1c:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I sit the filters on this ring directly. There is a second filter tray in the kit that clips onto the ring and this would hold the filters more securely. I couldn't get it to fit properly, however, because of the way the 1c is built, so I don't use it. It would be possible to cut one of the corners to make it fit but I didn't bother. Here is the tray:

That's nice.I'm using the ilford filter kit.

[Xícara de Café]

1 hour ago, Alan Siqueira said:

That's nice.I'm using the ilford filter kit.

Very elegant! I think perhaps you have a Focotar lens? I don't have a working Focotar unfortunately, so the enlarger doesn't hold focus when I adjust the crop. I assume your tray attaches to the lens itself (as can the tray fitting of the Kodak kit). Since the lens of the 1a rotates when manually focussed, I'd need to dismount the tray for every new print.

It would be nice to see some of your prints. Are you aware of the "I like Film" thread on the website? A good place to post film scans and prints.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/

 

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[Alan Siqueira]

9 hours ago, Xícara de Café said:

Very elegant! I think perhaps you have a Focotar lens? I don't have a working Focotar unfortunately, so the enlarger doesn't hold focus when I adjust the crop. I assume your tray attaches to the lens itself (as can the tray fitting of the Kodak kit). Since the lens of the 1a rotates when manually focussed, I'd need to dismount the tray for every new print.

It would be nice to see some of your prints. Are you aware of the "I like Film" thread on the website? A good place to post film scans and prints.

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205842-i-like-filmopen-thread/

 

I have a Elmar 3.5 enlarging lens. Really like it, it's very sharp. I wanna buy a Focotar someday, but I guess I don't really need one. And yes, the tray attaches to the lens.

Did you adjust the autofocus? I've heard that the autofocus on the 1c can be adjust to many lenses from others markers ( which is diferent from the focomat v35 ). I adjust for my Elmar and is so pratical. Just speed up the process.

What did you think of the film holder? I kind of struggle at first, but now I put the film in the right position

I new on the forum, but will put some prints on the "I like fim" thread. Thanks

Edited January 6, 2022 by Alan Siqueira

[Xícara de Café]

7 hours ago, Alan Siqueira said:

Did you adjust the autofocus? I've heard that the autofocus on the 1c can be adjust to many lenses from others markers ( which is diferent from the focomat v35 ). I adjust for my Elmar and is so pratical. Just speed up the process.

It's been a few years since I messed around with the focus and have forgotten what is involved. I do have a Focotar, it's just that it's in terrible condition so I don't use it. The autofocus did work with it when I tried. I could not get it to work however with the Schneider-Compton S 50/2.8 (a nice lens too and and has the advantage of a lever to switch between the chosen f-stop and f2.8, for focussing/framing, etc). I have the PDF manual for the 1c, so I'll look again. Perhaps I missed something, thanks!

7 hours ago, Alan Siqueira said:

What did you think of the film holder? I kind of struggle at first, but now I put the film in the right position

Had no problem with the negative holder itself but I did have occasional problems with Newton rings appearing in the prints. I cut a window on a flat piece of plastic (a type of credit card with no embossed lettering) and drilled two holes in it to mount on the two posts of the negative holder. It sits between the condenser and the film. I wrote about the problem on this forum, I think. Will see if I can find the link....

7 hours ago, Alan Siqueira said:

I new on the forum, but will put some prints on the "I like fim" thread.

Great!