Sunny 16 question

[George Stoichev]

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Hi,

I have Leica M6 classic

I’d like to test shooting w/out using the light meter, but use the sunny 16 rule.

Because I use mainly 400 ISO films, In accordance with sunny 16 rule I should set the shutter speed to 1/400, but there is mo such a speed on my Leica.There are 1/125

and 1/500.What advice you can give and do you have some experience using sunny 16 rule?

[Jul]

Consider the 400 ISO film is 250 ISO (It might even be more acurate than
what it says on the box).

[a.noctilux]

Use 1/500 😉.

not as simple,

you need to learn the light

have a read in this link

where we can read:

"

The "sunny f/16" anchor point, combined with your knowledge that each change of one step in a factor doubles or halves the exposure, makes it easy to select a correct exposure for any photographic situation you may be confronted with.

"

then this Expomat can help to learn the light

[mikemgb]

I actually find Sunny 11 to be better, in bright sunlight I shoot 400 film at 1/500 f11. 

[FrozenInTime]

A little extra exposure helps with negative film.

The true film speed if often less than the box indicated speed . In Europe during winter with low sun , the solar irradiance is less than the nominal standard.

i.e. start at 1/125s f/16 and open aperture even more to account for shade, haze, cloud and time of day etc.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by FrozenInTime

[250swb]

Use the meter in your M6 and try to remember what it's telling you. Before long you will be able to set the aperture and speed and your meter will simply confirm your estimate. Much better than Sunny 16 because ultimately you are using both experience and facts, not simply guesswork invented for people who had no idea and had to read instructions on a film box.

[pgk]

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54 minutes ago, George Stoichev said:

I’d like to test shooting w/out using the light meter, but use the sunny 16 rule.

I have to ask why? Yes, I can guestimate exposure and, after over 40 years pro experience, I am usually in the ballpark. But, depending on what you are doing, a sinlge meter reading will oftn allow the camera to be set once and used until the light changes. Hardly an onerous task.

Edited December 18, 2021 by pgk
typo

[spydrxx]

IMHO Sunny 16 eliminates the distraction of always fiddling with the exposure in a nearly constant lighting situation. You do need to do a test run, based on where you live though, and the full sunlight intensity between 10am-4pm...is it sunny 16 or is it sunny 11. You'll only know by testing it out. As to your question....films, especially B&W films have a lot of latitude. So 1/400 vs 1/500 or 1/250 isn't a big deal for most shots. Choose what works best for you.

[George Stoichev]

Hi,

I know B&W film has wider latitude, but I shot mainly with color film.

[a.noctilux]

Color negative films are the same as b&w with colors added.

If you don't process yourself, the lab will do the compensation (to about 3-4 EV before the color balances change ).

[earleygallery]

1 hour ago, mikemgb said:

I actually find Sunny 11 to be better, in bright sunlight I shoot 400 film at 1/500 f11. 

Yes sunny 11 is more accurate unless you are in really bright sunny conditions, with no/minimal air pollution.

As for shutter speed just use 1/500, the difference is so minimal it's not going to matter, not forgetting that your 1/500 is likely going to be 1/4?? in reality.

[cboy]

1 hour ago, a.noctilux said:

Use 1/500 😉.

not as simple,

you need to learn the light

have a read in this link

where we can read:

"

The "sunny f/16" anchor point, combined with your knowledge that each change of one step in a factor doubles or halves the exposure, makes it easy to select a correct exposure for any photographic situation you may be confronted with.

"

then this Expomat can help to learn the light

https://apkcombo.com/photo-exposure-calculator/br.com.fotoconfig/

Someone made an 'app' version.

Btw hint: - the kodak film boxes had inside small exposure charts that were based on the shadow intensity rather light 😉

Edited December 18, 2021 by cboy

[George Stoichev]

2 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Use 1/500 😉.

not as simple,

you need to learn the light

have a read in this link

where we can read:

"

The "sunny f/16" anchor point, combined with your knowledge that each change of one step in a factor doubles or halves the exposure, makes it easy to select a correct exposure for any photographic situation you may be confronted with.

"

then this Expomat can help to learn the light

Thank you for the link!

[andrew01]

On 12/18/2021 at 8:31 PM, 250swb said:

Use the meter in your M6 and try to remember what it's telling you. Before long you will be able to set the aperture and speed and your meter will simply confirm your estimate. Much better than Sunny 16 because ultimately you are using both experience and facts, not simply guesswork invented for people who had no idea and had to read instructions on a film box.

 

I use a similar approach with my metered cameras.  I first try to guess the exposure based on interpretation of the light.  I then check the meter to see how close I was.  I have found my ability to estimate light has improved since adopting this approach.

Generally I shoot a shutter speed around the reciprocal of film speed.  If it is very bright I will set the speed one or two stops faster to keep the aperture in the sweet spot around f8.  In dim conditions I will use a slower shutter speed for the same reason.

With negative film it is better to err on the side of over exposing.  For this reason I try to meter for the tones that are on the darker side of the mid tone.  If estimating exposure this translates to an extra 1-2 stops of exposure depending on the contrast in the scene.  

It is important to consider that the negative exposure does not dictate your interpretation of the tones in the image and how you want these represented in the scan or print, as long as there is sufficient density on the negative to work with.  Interesting article on the subject below.  Perhaps a bit controversial but it makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.johnnypatience.com/the-zone-system-is-dead/

 

 

 

 

[malligator]

Excellent advice from everyone. I do almost all of it.

1. I usually start with my M-A setup for Sunny 16/EV 15 (1/ISO@f16) during the day.
2. If it's night or I'm inside I set it up for EV 5 (1/60@f1.4 with 400 speed film, for example)
3. I estimate the ambient EV (usually of the shadows).
4. I measure the EV with a dedicated meter or my phone.
5. I change aperture and shutter speed to the correct value adding or subtracting EV as I turn the knob/ring.
6. If I haven't measured in a while or the light obviously changes then I measure again.

The more I do it this way the better I get at estimating the light and the quicker I get at setting the correct EV. Again, though, I don't do it every time so it's working out really well.

 

[Erato]

On 12/19/2021 at 4:04 AM, George Stoichev said:

Hi,

I have Leica M6 classic

I’d like to test shooting w/out using the light meter, but use the sunny 16 rule.

Because I use mainly 400 ISO films, In accordance with sunny 16 rule I should set the shutter speed to 1/400, but there is mo such a speed on my Leica.There are 1/125

and 1/500.What advice you can give and do you have some experience using sunny 16 rule?

To OP,

I forgot where I found it(attached) but it's good for further reference.

Sunny16 Business cards - Sheet1.csv

[Fotoklaus]

On the back of some Rolleiflex/ Rolleicord Cameras there have been nice pictograms for a orientation:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

But to be honest: We use Cameras and lenses for thousands of Dollars/ Euros, using sunny 16 (and estimate focus...) for loosing a lot of image quality.

Information gets lost in the shades or highlights, grain, gray flare, etc.

Most of the time I am using a small Gossen Digisix with measuring the incident light and get perfect results.

Out of the pcoket, one click on the button and everything is set up within seconds. If the light conditions stay the same you don´t even have to measure for every single shot.

Just my opinion.

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

If you're like me, use Sunny 16 for six months, and very quickly you'll have the exposure settings of most outdoor shooting situations memorized.  If I'm in bright sun with a yellow filter, ISO 100, it's 1/1000 at f/4 -- I know that, intuitively, faster then the meter on a camera can figure it out -- and then open it up a stop or so (or close it down, rarely) depending on the light (clouds, shadows, ect).  You'll find yourself looking at a meter less and less.  If you have a question, just bracket the exposures.  I carry a meter with me, use it once in awhile, but Sunny 16 isn't difficult, especially with B&W film.  Now slide film (and some quirky B&W stuff), you'll want to take more care.  These films have less exposure latitude.  

How film is developed can also effect exposure accuracy (e.g., stand).

Edited December 21, 2021 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[250swb]

37 minutes ago, Fotoklaus said:

On the back of some Rolleiflex/ Rolleicord Cameras there have been nice pictograms for a orientation:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

But to be honest: We use Cameras and lenses for thousands of Dollars/ Euros, using sunny 16 (and estimate focus...) for loosing a lot of image quality.

Information gets lost in the shades or highlights, grain, gray flare, etc.

Most of the time I am using a small Gossen Digisix with measuring the incident light and get perfect results.

Out of the pcoket, one click on the button and everything is set up within seconds. If the light conditions stay the same you don´t even have to measure for every single shot.

Just my opinion.

You make a very good point, but I guess it's only the people who have made consistently good negatives who appreciate the difference. There is too much talk of films latitude and it makes people think they can't do better than they are doing by using Sunny 16 or other 'get out of gaol' techniques such as stand development. Nowadays we pay for expensive film that can have so much more to give than is revealed by exploiting the latitude of film and autonomic processing regimes. It's interesting that in a Rollei camera manual they'll explain the 'Sunny 16' chart like the one you show, but then go on to tell the owner to use a meter. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Fotoklaus]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb 250swb:

You make a very good point, but I guess it's only the people who have made consistently good negatives who appreciate the difference. There is too much talk of films latitude and it makes people think they can't do better than they are doing by using Sunny 16 or other 'get out of gaol' techniques such as stand development. Nowadays we pay for expensive film that can have so much more to give than is revealed by exploiting the latitude of film and autonomic processing regimes. It's interesting that in a Rollei camera manual they'll explain the 'Sunny 16' chart like the one you show, but then go on to tell the owner to use a meter. 

This chart was just thought for use as a backup, I think. And also using this chart properly means a lot of practice.