Your Mandler MVP's (Most Valuable Players)

[grahamc]

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Hello Everyone 

OK, a bit of fun here (if we feel this to be different enough to other Mandler appreciation threads - Links below at the end of this post) 

If you had to pick out your favourite (only one) in each Focal Length, which are your Mandler MVP's ?  You can nominate lenses that you don't actually own, as long as you're absolutely sure that it would be you MVP in that FL.  But remember, only one nomination per FL  

(Obviously I'm not talking about monetary value here btw 🙄)

I'll start:  

28mm: I don't own a Mander / unsure 
35mm: 35:1.4 v2 
50mm: 50:2 v4 (I feel like a big money transfer purchase of the 50:1.4 v3 may alter this, however) 
75mm: 75:1.4 (don't own it but have seen enough images to be convinced this would be my pick) 
90mm: I don't own a Mander / unsure 

Anyone else ?  Feel free to add more FL's ...

Thanks in advance of your all-star line ups 
Graham 

Excellent and informative Mandler threads here :
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/45272-in-praise-of-the-mandler-lenses/?tab=comments#comment-481615
and
https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266277-show-us-some-mandler-magic/?tab=comments#comment-3143925

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by grahamc

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[grahamc]

2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Absolutely my 75 Summilux. The essence of Mandler. Funny Peter Karbe never really liked it...

Thanks Al.  I can imagine.  Both of the threads I mentioned above seemed to turn into 75:1.4 tributes - and I can see why, the images look absolutely stunning.

Bucketlist stuff ! 

 

[ianman]

8 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

PS. Maybe you should explain to many non-English speakers here what a MVP is.

And to native English speakers too please!

[grahamc]

Thanks @Al Brown,  @ianman , feedback received in time to change the title  

But with that clarification in mind, we are not talking value in the $$ sense.

Who would make it to your team sheet for the big game  

Cheers 

G 

Edited November 1, 2021 by grahamc

[darylgo]

50mm f1 Noctilux, gorgeous lens and I would shoot this over the 0.95 Karbe lens. 
 

75mm , the Karbe f1.25 is spectacular, so this one over the f1.4 Mandler, a great lens also. 
 

35mm, has to be ver 2, summilux for me.  Is this a Mandler lens?  

[adan]

Well, at least you and I won't be arguing - my current Mandlers and yours cover different bases.

21mm: Elmarit-M E60 - the lens that brought me to the Leica dance 20 years ago. Never found anything better enough consistently to replace it.

135mm: Tele-Elmar f/4.0 - I'm not absolutely sure this was a Mandler design, but most people say so. Generally fits his style. Never found anything consistently better.

28mm: I actually use the post-Mandler v.4 (since two months ago) - but I consider it to be still "in his style" since it matches well with his 50mm Summicron v.4/5, and 90 Elmarit-M (originally created for the R system in 1980). And my 21mm (See above).

"Transitional" between classic Mandler/Canada and the APO/ASPH style. A v.3 replacement with smaller size, a bit more contrast and a tiny bit more corner resolution at f/2.8, but with color and saturation comparable to the v.3.

35mm: I'd vote for the 35 f/1.4 Summilux - except for its darn 1m close-focus limit. I use the 35mm f/1.4 Nokton instead - but sometimes wish it was the Summilux.

50mm: not a focal length I use - I substitute a 75. No worthwhile comment.

75mm: I'll never argue with the selection of the Summilux-M, for those who can carry the weight (literally, and on the pocket-book). But personally I use the fantastically light (335g) Voigtlander f/1.5 Nokton these days. Which, while slightly different from the Summilux in this detail or that detail, feels surprisingly true to its legacy.

90mm: another focal-length I don't currently use. Having tried most of the Mandler 90s in the past year, I gave up on all of them in favor of the 75/135 combo instead. And their characteristics are so - different - that I wouldn't presume to recommend one over the others as the MVP. Each is worth a look, if an opportunity arises.

However, I would say the 90mm Summicron-M v.3 is a signature Mandler lens for color rendition and bokeh - a "75mm Summilux, Jr."

Edited November 1, 2021 by adan

[grahamc]

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41 minutes ago, darylgo said:

50mm f1 Noctilux, gorgeous lens and I would shoot this over the 0.95 Karbe lens. 
 

75mm , the Karbe f1.25 is spectacular, so this one over the f1.4 Mandler, a great lens also. 
 

35mm, has to be ver 2, summilux for me.  Is this a Mandler lens?  

Bringing out the big guns for the # 50 jersey, I see.... very nice !

Yes the 35:1.4 v2 is a Mandler  
Thanks for the input

[grahamc]

1 hour ago, adan said:

Well, at least you and I won't be arguing - my current Mandlers and yours cover different bases.

 

Thanks Andy for the detailed input .

In my list I didn't nominate a 28mm because I don't know enough about them just yet, however I was looking extensively yesterday at a photographer's image gallery (Flickr) who seems to favour the same lenses as myself.     I did a blind test by picking out images I liked, and almost all of them were made with the very reasonably priced 28:2.8 vIII.    Further research revealed that the v.IV seemingly only adds positives (size, corner performance) rather than changing anything else significant in the rendering, by all accounts.

In the photos in question, they all seemed to have a remarkable 3D pop. Is that a feature of this particular lens do you think ? If so I wasn't aware of it .

He also used 35:1.4 v2 and 35:2 v4 and the pop was evident with those also, but interestingly the standouts absolutely were 28:2.8 VIII images. 

maybe some skill/distortion on how a 28mm FL can be used contributes to this exaggeration but it made me really interested in the VIII or V.IV 

Edited November 1, 2021 by grahamc

[grahamc]

2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Here is my Summilux 75 II on the "Wetzlar" Monochrome.
Forgot to mention I also love the Elmarit 28 III, 50 Noctilux f1, 35 Cron II and 50 Lux II from the man.

 

Thanks Al !  Nice choices.   In that case I'd appreciate your input to my observations of the 28:2.8 VIII (post before yours) if you have chance .  And nice M10-M edition. 

Cheers

G 

Edited November 1, 2021 by grahamc

[grahamc]

15 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I have no experience with 28 IV which is not a Mandler lens. I can only tell you about the III which was in production from 1979 until 1993 and is the only Mandler 28mm M lens (I think the only Mandler 28 Leica lens even). Only praise for this little affordable gem, stopped down at f/8 it is just gorgeous.

Thanks.  That's interesting ... I didn't know that about the IV.  

re VIII, what would you say are it's defining characteristics ?   the 3D look / subject separation was quite striking in the samples I saw 

Edited November 1, 2021 by grahamc

[chasdfg]

1 hour ago, darylgo said:

50mm f1 Noctilux, gorgeous lens and I would shoot this over the 0.95 Karbe lens. 
 

75mm , the Karbe f1.25 is spectacular, so this one over the f1.4 Mandler, a great lens also. 
 

35mm, has to be ver 2, summilux for me.  Is this a Mandler lens?  

I share the same view as you on the 50mm front.

50mm: 50 Noct f1. Screams "Mandler", almost excessively sometimes.

75mm: My favourite Mandler, which is the 75lux. Actually i have a soft spot for the 80lux but since this is an M lens forum..anyway, I don't own the 80lux any more and replaced it with the 75lux for ergonomics and coupling and for my amateur eyes they render close enough to be substitutes.

I only wish there was a 35mm with the same characteristics as the 75lux as I'm a 35mm guy and I hardly use my 75lux as a result. The 35lux pre-asph comes close, but it is a bit too soft wide open for my liking (unlike the 75lux, though it would be a closer match to the 50 f1)...I'm thinking the 35lux pre-FLE (or AA, but the AA is out of reach) might come close but it isn't a Mandler IIRC. I'd give my 35mm vote to the 35mm Summicron v4 on the basis of size and performance, potentially unfairly excluding the 35lux pre-asph.

90mm: 90mm Summicron pre-asph (some images are pretty 75lux-like in my view and the lens is much more affordable). I'd be very happy with one.

No clue about 28mm (no experience with any)

Edited November 1, 2021 by chasdfg
posting too hastily as usual

[evikne]

My list is pretty similar to yours.

35mm Summilux pre-ASPH v2. I have also tried the Summicron v4, but landed on the Summilux, despite its "annoying" 1 m MFD.

50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v3. I have also owned the 50mm Noctilux f/1 and 75mm Summilux, but had to sell them for financial reasons. My thought was that the Summilux could be a kind of substitute for both, because the rendering is quite similar (of course apart from their extremely shallow DOF and extra focal length). It has worked pretty well, but I still miss both the other two from time to time.

If I get the opportunity to buy a new lens, it will be either another 75mm Summilux, or the 90mm Summicron v3. The new dilemma will be to choose between a longer focal length or a larger degree of magnification. The short MFD of 75mm also makes it very suitable for close-up photography.

Edited November 1, 2021 by evikne

[a.noctilux]

I have no list to share 😇.

 

Needless to say, I was ( ...still am ) long decades of Mandler's lenses which I knew nothing before entering this website.

I just use happily those nice creations of the wise man who saved Leica M ( later knowledge! ).

Two lenses which "prevented" me to use 28mm for long were 21mm and 35mm lenses.

...

In 28mm, out of topic, as I discovered the long waited Summicron-M 28mm ( not Mandler ! 1992-2005 period ) to be my favorite for years ( before the 'now'  tiny asph. 28 Elmarit-M ).

 

My end word would be for you Graham, if you can, try this nice 2/28mm, then you can decide for your next 28mm.

Edited November 1, 2021 by a.noctilux

[a.noctilux]

4 minutes ago, evikne said:

My list is pretty similar to yours.

35mm Summilux pre-ASPH v2. I have also tried the Summicron v4, but landed on the Summilux, despite its "annoying" 1 m MFD.

50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v3. I have also owned the 50mm Noctilux f/1 and 75mm Summilux, but had to sell them for financial reasons. My thought was that the Summilux could be a kind of substitute for both, because the rendering is quite similar (of course apart from their extremely shallow DOF and extra focal length). It has worked pretty well, but I still miss both the other two.

If I get the opportunity to buy a new lens, it will be either another 75mm Summilux, or the 90mm Summicron v3. The new dilemma will be to choose between a longer focal length or a larger degree of magnification (1:9 vs. 1:11). The short MFD of 75mm also makes it very suitable for close-up photography.

Yes, wonderful 75mm not only for MFD.

I still under it's charm when I do some scans

 

 

[evikne]

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Absolutely my 75 Summilux. The essence of Mandler. Funny Peter Karbe never really liked it...

He never said he didn't like it. It's just a misconception that has spread online.

[ianman]

23 minutes ago, evikne said:

50mm Summilux pre-ASPH v3.

Is this a Mandler design? The wiki says otherwise. I have the black paint version and it’s one I use quite a bit.

I also have the 75mm Summilux which, weak hearts avert your eyes now, I hate to use. Too big, too heavy, never ending focus throw… when I finally get around to selling some lenses it will be top of the list.

Edited November 1, 2021 by ianman

[grahamc]

52 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

That 3D pop of the 28 III is a much loved and sought after characteristic of this lens, not a good luck thingy. Buy with confidence.
The IV is clearly sharper in the corners and a bit contrastier according to my online research somewhere up to f4.5, after that there should not be any remarkable difference between the two.

That's great to know, thanks for clarifying Al 

[evikne]

8 minutes ago, ianman said:

Is this a Mandler design? The wiki says otherwise. I have the black paint version and it’s one I use quite a bit.

It's optically identical to the previous version, designed by Mandler. The exterior changes may have been made by someone else.

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[grahamc]

35 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

I have no list to share 😇.

 

Needless to say, I was ( ...still am ) long decades of Mandler's lenses which I knew nothing before entering this website.

I just use happily those nice creations of the wise man who saved Leica M ( later knowledge! ).

Two lenses which "prevented" me to use 28mm for long were 21mm and 35mm lenses.

...

In 28mm, out of topic, as I discovered the long waited Summicron-M 28mm ( not Mandler ! 1992-2005 period ) to be my favorite for years ( before the 'now'  tiny asph. 28 Elmarit-M ).

 

My end word would be for you Graham, if you can, try this nice 2/28mm, then you can decide for your next 28mm.

  Thanks Arnaud ... I'll check it out and appreciate the recommendation.   We seem spoilt at 28mm FL .  I should take this opportunity to ask what you like so much about this 2/28 ?  

Edited November 1, 2021 by grahamc

[evikne]

2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Trust me, he did. He stated Dr. Mandler's 75mm Summilux 1.4 was his *least* favorite design. It is of course logical, that lens is NOT critically sharp wide open and Karbe strives that his (or "his team's", as he likes to put it) designs are made to be flawless using at the widest aperture - "stop down for what?".
Plus, I have also asked him in person in Wetzlar a few weeks ago.

I have seen an interview where he said the opposite. But unfortunately I can't remember where.