Julius Bjornsson Posted September 3, 2007 Share #1 Posted September 3, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi there everyone , this is my first post here and as I have already found out this forum contains a wealth of information, so thanks for that. Incredible resource. I have just recently switched to a M8, and to make a long story short, I absolutely love it. I come from using a Nikon D2X now since it came out and my feeling is that I have taken a jump in image quality. Have just two lenses a new Elmarit 2,8 28 mm and an older Summicron 50 f2.0 and they are both absolutely great. My completely subjective evaluation is just like my former photos have had a film removed from them, what I am getting now is so sharp and contrasty, but I am just beginning and have of course run into a number of issues. Now to the questions. I have been using PhotoKit Sharpener now for some time with PS CS3 and that was an absolute godsend for use with the Nikon. When I use the same procedure for capture sharpening with the M8 I get oversharpened photos and my feeling is now to not do any capture sharpening at all, and of course keep doing the output sharpening as before according to printer, size and paper. I really would like to hear what you more experienced people are doing for capture sharpening or whether you are just leaving things as they are straight from the M8? One other thing I am also struggling with a bit is what I think is chromatic abberations around highlights (e.g. sunshine reflected off water) I get these great blobs of magenta around the highlights and this is especially noticeble with the Summicron 50, which I incidentally do not have any IR filter for yet. How are you guys handling these situations? A last thing that annoys me a little bit is the inaccuracy of the viewfinder frames at longer distances. I am sure that I will get used to this, but is there any chance of a fix from Leica? Anyway, there is absolutely no chance of getting me to switch cameras again, the M8 will have to be pried by force from my cold dead hands, as someone put it, absolutely great machine. Thanks again for the incredible information here. JKB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 3, 2007 Posted September 3, 2007 Hi Julius Bjornsson, Take a look here On sharpening and some other issues with the M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted September 3, 2007 Share #2 Posted September 3, 2007 Welcome to the forum :)Very simple: don't sharpen in C1, and if desired minimal USM in PS. That is all. Due to the lack of an AA filter M8 files need very little sharpening, if any at all. The highlights: use an IR filter indeed and don't blow the highlights. Underexpose if neccesary and rely on the amazing shadow recovery the M8 offers. On the framelines: read all the relevant threads... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm23221 Posted September 3, 2007 Share #3 Posted September 3, 2007 I personally have always used Nik Sharpener. I find that after RAW conversion a certain level of sharpening is needed and beneficial depending on the size of the print. Nik Sharpener takes this into account whereas USM does not. Usinga a mask, one can also do selective sharpening and also sharpen based on color alone. Use your UV/IR filter. There is some inherent chromatic aberration in many Leica (and most other) lenses - there isn't a perfect lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 3, 2007 Share #4 Posted September 3, 2007 The files are not softened in the camera by an AA filter so they don't need much sharpening afterwards. One is just starting out with a different kind of file. Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 3, 2007 Share #5 Posted September 3, 2007 I also use the Photokit sharpeners and don't use the capture sharpening at all with the M8. I tended not to use it either with the Canon DSLRs that I've used. Let your eyes be the judge. If you find the results oversharpened either don't bother, or back off the opactity of the layer group. With the internet output filters (which I do use) I tend to back off the opacity to somewhere in the 70-80% region with images from the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 3, 2007 Share #6 Posted September 3, 2007 Ah- yes with reduced Jpegs I use USM 50%-0.4-0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philinflash Posted September 3, 2007 Share #7 Posted September 3, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) If I shoot in RAW (which I now do exclusively), I find I do not usually require sharpening. That decision I leave to last in my post workflow, where I find it usually does not add (or subtract, if you like) anything. Philip Kozloff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Bjornsson Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted September 3, 2007 Thanks everyone, this confirms my subjective experience of the M8 files. Great advice overall. Thanks again, JKB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted September 3, 2007 Share #9 Posted September 3, 2007 I only sharpen for webviewing because of heavy downsizing............. i stopped sharpening for print at all ......... results are so much smoother and .... 'filmlike' ........ just try it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 3, 2007 Share #10 Posted September 3, 2007 ————————The highlights: use an IR filter indeed and don't blow the highlights. Underexpose if neccesary and rely on the amazing shadow recovery the M8 offers. On the framelines: read all the relevant threads... Nice piece of advice about the highlights, but impossible – how can you avoid 'blowing' specular highlights such as reflections on water, without the rest of the image going totally black? A specular highlight, being a mirroring of a light source such as the sun, can have an intensity thousands of times greater than that of a normal diffuse highlight, which seldom has a reflectance higher than c. 90%. I get these magenta-fringed speculars with an UV/IR filter too, meaning that this is not an IR-related problem. What to do – shall we totally abstain from backlighted shots across water? Shoot black and white? Is this a generic problem, common to all digital cameras? The old man from the Innocent Age of Film Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 3, 2007 Share #11 Posted September 3, 2007 Hi Lars, I've come across this with other digital cameras, but the issue is worse with the M8 than with say the Canon 5D. As you say it isn't caused by the use or otherwise of an IR cut filter. I haven't found a solution other than b&w conversion, though there may be some Photoshop actions out there that are intended to gradually reduce CA, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted September 3, 2007 Share #12 Posted September 3, 2007 I absolutely love the image quality of the M8 in terms of sharpness. I only use the sharpening filter available in PSCS3, and haven't tried some of the other software mentioned in this thread, but the truth of the matter is that my images require far less sharpening if any than my pictures taken with my Canon 5D which is a 12 mega pixel camera. Even with my 50mm Hexanon, a relatively inexpensive lens, the sharpness is more than gratifying! Congratulations on your M8 purchase. Cheers, Wilfredo Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted September 3, 2007 Share #13 Posted September 3, 2007 Nice piece of advice about the highlights, but impossible – how can you avoid 'blowing' specular highlights such as reflections on water, without the rest of the image going totally black? A specular highlight, being a mirroring of a light source such as the sun, can have an intensity thousands of times greater than that of a normal diffuse highlight, which seldom has a reflectance higher than c. 90%. I get these magenta-fringed speculars with an UV/IR filter too, meaning that this is not an IR-related problem. What to do – shall we totally abstain from backlighted shots across water? Shoot black and white? Is this a generic problem, common to all digital cameras? The old man from the Innocent Age of Film Lars and others--there is a really simple and elegant post process PS plugin to use on the the purple (and green on Canon's stuff) fringing you find on specular highlights. It's called, not surprisingly, Shay's Purple Fringe remover. It cost $10, and was developed by Shay Stephens. Get this plugin and you'll probably never worry about speculars again. Color Fringe Reducer 5.0 - Shay Stephens Photography It really does work very well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 3, 2007 Share #14 Posted September 3, 2007 That's the action I was hinting at - but had forgotten the name of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 3, 2007 Share #15 Posted September 3, 2007 Nice piece of advice about the highlights, but impossible – how can you avoid 'blowing' specular highlights such as reflections on water, without the rest of the image going totally black? A specular highlight, being a mirroring of a light source such as the sun, can have an intensity thousands of times greater than that of a normal diffuse highlight, which seldom has a reflectance higher than c. 90%. I get these magenta-fringed speculars with an UV/IR filter too, meaning that this is not an IR-related problem. What to do – shall we totally abstain from backlighted shots across water? Shoot black and white? Is this a generic problem, common to all digital cameras? The old man from the Innocent Age of Film Yes Lars, it is a common problem with digital camera's and indeed specular highlights are something else, that were not the ones I had in mind. On the M8 I often find a blue fringe btw. I usually disregard it; it tends to be a lot worse on the screen than in print. Don't ask me why... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Bjornsson Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted September 3, 2007 Great advice, I just bought the software and am waiting for an email. Meanwhile this is my problem, note that this is a very small version of the problem photo. and a 100% crop which shows the problem. When I print this out in A3, the photo gets a magenta hue in all the highlights. thanks again for all the fine advice. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/32573-on-sharpening-and-some-other-issues-with-the-m8/?do=findComment&comment=345163'>More sharing options...
gmaurizio Posted September 3, 2007 Share #17 Posted September 3, 2007 Did you try a polarizer? Might help... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Bjornsson Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share #18 Posted September 3, 2007 No will remember to have a polarizer with me next time I encounter similar things. Good suggestion. thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 3, 2007 Share #19 Posted September 3, 2007 That's a hard shot, since it is reflected sunlight you are dealing with. To get something like this closer to perfect in general, it may be necessary to shoot two or three shots and combine them, but in this case the moving water would make it difficult. Have you tried using the histogram on the camera to reduce the exposure to the point where the highlights aren't over-exposed? I don't know if the shadows would come up perfectly, but I wouldn't know where else to start either. Unless... I believe that using a neutral density filter compressed the dynamic range of an image. In that case it might be easier to get better results. Have you tried with other lenses? The 50 Cron is a very good lens, but it is meanwhile a bit older, and it may be that another lens would do better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Bjornsson Posted September 3, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted September 3, 2007 I tried reducing the exposure I think I tried -1.5 EV and that almost eliminated the blown out bits, but also made the whole photo unusable. I think the best option would be the software to reduce the fringes, I will report on that at once when I have tried it. Still waiting for the email with the action. I also feel that bringing up the shadows so much will make the whole tonality of the picture somewhat artificial. Besides the CA is also in highlights that are not blown, although it is not so noticable as in my example. A HDR solution would have been possible if the ocean could be persuaded to be absolutely still while I took 3-4 photos. Ha ha. Will get back with the results from the fringe action. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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