Leica M3, Shutter Issue?

[dbla]

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Hello everyone,

Aaron here, new to the forum and somewhat new to Leica. Back in early Summer I purchased a Leica M3 DS from a seller on FB. The camera was in rough shape, and when it arrived I noticed "shutter capping" on the first roll I shot through it. I arrived at an agreeable accommodation from the seller and sent the camera off to YYe for service, as I had an upcoming trip in October (that I have just returned from) that I wanted to take the camera on.

Now that I am back and have been slowly working through my film, I am seeing some peculiar behavior on the negatives. Is this STILL shutter capping? I know Youxin offers a 6 month warranty, but that would still be frustrating.

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[dbla]

A couple more additional examples...

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[a.noctilux]

Welcome here,

and to the world of old Leica M with flaws.

...

I know this for decades,

not using 1/500 and avoid 1/1000 when I use old Leica M or LTM.

Depending mostly on temperature (humidity ?) new/old grease, or many parameters for reliable use.

 

Sorry for you, if you send for repair, in the temperature/humidity of 'office', the repair person would not see the flaws.

My experience from more than four/five Ms in last decades, nothing can be done or buy newer Leica M/replace the shutter modul (expensive, if possible)

Edited October 25, 2021 by a.noctilux

[dbla]

14 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Welcome here,

and to the world of old Leica M with flaws.

...

I know this for decades,

not using 1/500 and avoid 1/1000 when I use old Leica M or LTM.

Depending mostly on temperature (humidity ?) new/old grease, or many parameters for reliable use.

 

Sorry for you, if you send for repair, in the temperature/humidity of 'office', the repair person would not see the flaws.

My experience from more than four/five Ms in last decades, nothing can be done or buy newer Leica M/replace the shutter modul (expensive, if possible)

Understood that would make some sense it was very cold these days. Which it hasn’t been otherwise. 

[mikemgb]

The first two images do look like capping, perhaps it’s just happening at one speed? I’d talk to Youxin, he’ll stand by his work. I’ve had him do shutter replacements and CLAs on three of my cameras, one M and two screw mount, since then they’ve been flawless at all speeds. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by mikemgb
Typos

[dbla]

8 minutes ago, mikemgb said:

The first two images do look like capping, perhaps it’s just happening at one speed? I’d talk to Youxin, he’ll stand by his work. I’ve had him do shutter replacements and CLAs on there. Of my cameras, one M and two screw mount, since then they’ve been flawless at all speeds. 

Cool, I sent him an email with those pictures. We shall see. 

[a.noctilux]

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This is reliable when the M leaved the factory, for how long depending on the use/maintenance/etc.

As good points;

- in the past, some decades ago, Leica offered service for Leica if for use in cold weather

- with newer M-A(made 2014) MP (made 2008-10), I never had the same problems using 500/1000, as older M I still use some years ago

so new shutter may be more reliable

[dbla]

14 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

This is reliable when the M leaved the factory, for how long depending on the use/maintenance/etc.

As good points;

- in the past, some decades ago, Leica offered service for Leica if for use in cold weather

- with newer M-A(made 2014) MP (made 2008-10), I never had the same problems using 500/1000, as older M I still use some years ago

so new shutter may be more reliable

We shall see, this did recently have a full CLA/service. Perhaps something was missed. 

[dbla]

Just to close the loop here, Youxin just responded and said it was indeed still capping. He can adjust it, I'll be shipping it back later this week. Good communication from him, fingers crossed for a quick(er) turn around. ;-)

[James T. Doe]

I just bought an M3 DS and it has the same problem. I've seen videos showing how easy it is to make an adjustment yourself (even Gus Lazarro -the Leica repair guy- has posted on repair forums that it's a pretty easy adjustment) but so far all the videos I've seen only talk about increasing tension on the closing curtain tensioner to fix a left-edge shadow.

The OP (and I) have the shadow on the right-edge - so does that mean I'd have to DECREASE tension the opening curtain tensioner?

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[a.noctilux]

I can not answer here for adjustment ...never had done that.

 

Just to write that most of time we (including me ! ) forget:

image reversed in the film chamber, right is left, up is down.

[Hintsalae]

Image above is closing curtain being slower like a.noctilux said. Might be fixable easily tensioning the curtain spring just a bit. Issue should remove itself just after quarter or a half turn clockwise.  But no more than that or your curtain brake adjustment goes south and then closing curtain starts to bounce. I wouldn't ever think about touching closing curtain. It's tension is tenth of the opening curtain and adjusting it doesn't most likely do anything good.

[250swb]

17 hours ago, James T. Doe said:

I just bought an M3 DS and it has the same problem. I've seen videos showing how easy it is to make an adjustment yourself (even Gus Lazarro -the Leica repair guy- has posted on repair forums that it's a pretty easy adjustment) but so far all the videos I've seen only talk about increasing tension on the closing curtain tensioner to fix a left-edge shadow.

The OP (and I) have the shadow on the right-edge - so does that mean I'd have to DECREASE tension the opening curtain tensioner?

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I agree with a.noctilux that is left side shutter capping, not right side. To be honest if you can't work that out send it for adjustment and don't try to do it yourself.

[Hintsalae]

Well I made quite mess there. I was speaking about opening curtain being slower and probably needing tiny bit of tension increase. Don't touch the closing curtain.

I recommend sending to service if your camera has not seen one in years. Fix above doesn't magically clean and lube stiff springs and gears.

[James T. Doe]

Thanks, and I was only thinking of making the adjustment myself because everything else about the camera is in really great shape. It is really clean, the shutter curtains look new, the leatherette is new, and everything is really smooth, which makes me think it's had a recent CLA, but it's probably a good idea to send it out to a pro regardless.

 

Now I just have to figure out where to send it!

 

Thanks guys!

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[a.noctilux]

Where depending on where you are,

Have a look in this thread

 

[250swb]

57 minutes ago, James T. Doe said:

Thanks, and I was only thinking of making the adjustment myself because everything else about the camera is in really great shape. It is really clean, the shutter curtains look new, the leatherette is new, and everything is really smooth, which makes me think it's had a recent CLA, but it's probably a good idea to send it out to a pro regardless.

 

Now I just have to figure out where to send it!

 

Thanks guys!

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It does look nice, well done.

[jerzy]

Am 25.11.2021 um 19:03 schrieb James T. Doe:

....that it's a pretty easy adjustment...

changing the tension will cure the symptom and the real problem, it is like one takes a painkiller medicine instead of visiting a doctor. The real reason is old grease/dirt and possibly as well an obstacle hindering the travel of the first curtain.

Looking at the photo I have an imoprerssion that it is overexposed on the left side (this is where the shutter starts to run), the sky is gradually getting darker then until darkening starts to be more intensive. This is more probably the place whene the guiding rails catch the first curtain, curtain shall softly slip into it, here it is being breaked. Either bent or too much old grease

CLA is very advisable

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jerzy]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jerzy:

changing the tension will cure the symptom and the real problem

made a typo... should be

changing the tension will cure the symptom but not the real problem

[James T. Doe]

I will definitely get a CLA on it.

One thing though, all these posts talk about being overexposed - but the OP and I are seeing a dark black shadow, if this is a shutter curtain sticking or going slow, wouldn't that be a bright (overexposed) area instead of a dark shadow?

Overexposures and light leaks are light, not dark . . .

Anyway, I'm looking around Atlanta. GA for a place that can do a CLA - I love this forum, glad to be part of the Leica "club".

 

JH