Elmarit-M 28mm (11677) On CL

[Ricard0]

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I just received a brand-new Elmarit-M 28mm f2.8 ASPH lens and M-Adapter L this afternoon and couldn't wait to try it out on my CL.   I was surprised to see that the CL shows the lens as Unknown Lens and the nearest profile appears to be "28 f/2.8 ASPH (11606)".  I was also expecting to see the f stop setting through the viewfinder but do not.  Of course when I half-press the shutter button the lens DOES stop down.

Any input from those familiar with using this combination?  Am I missing something or is this the correct profile to choose and the operation is as designed?

 

 

Thanks,

-rich-

[gotium]

I think you should see the lens identified as long as you are using Leica's own M-L adapter (no other will read the 6-bit coding). Ain't gonna see the f-stop though. 

 

You mean the aperture stops down physically in the lens when you touch the shutter? Don't know how to explain that. 

[Ricard0]

Yes, I have the Leica M-L adapter.   So f-stop doesn’t display;  disappointing but I can live with that.  More curious as to why the camera doesn’t recognize the lens. Firmware is up to date.

[wda]

Think about it. There is no electronic connection between the lens aperture setting  and the camera. So you set the aperture of your choice.

In manual mode, you will see if your settings will give you the correct exposure or not. Adjust as necessary.

As an aside, be aware of the image magnification possibility and settings. This is a huge help in focusing your image. Your handbook will give you details how to achieve that option.

Edited September 23, 2021 by wda

[Ricard0]

5 hours ago, wda said:

Think about it. There is no electronic connection between the lens aperture setting  and the camera. So you set the aperture of your choice.

In manual mode, you will see if your settings will give you the correct exposure or not. Adjust as necessary.

As an aside, be aware of the image magnification possibility and settings. This is a huge help in focusing your image. Your handbook will give you details how to achieve that option.

I was under the impression that since the M-L adapter passes data about the lens to the CL that it would also pass the aperture setting.  I realize that was a misunderstanding on my part and as mentioned earlier I can live with it, having cut my photography teeth using a Nikon F2A in the 70's.

At the risk of repeating myself:  The one thing I'm concerned/confused about is selection of the proper lens profile in the camera.   When I mount the lens the camera says "Unknown Lens" and Elmarit-M (11677) isn't available in the M lens drop-down list.  Which I find surprising, as the latest version of this lens has been around for 4-5 years and the camera is on the latest firmware.

So the question to the forum is, which lens profile would be closest to the Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8?

[wda]

The 6-bit code on the lens describes the Leica lens to the Leica body, when attached. Try cleaning the contacts.

[gotium]

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yeah, there's some issue - it should read the lens correctly and tell you that it is the 28 elmarit. 

No M lenses pass aperture info to the camera. 

[lct]

Contrary to 28/2.8 asph v1 (11606) v2 (11677) is not listed in the Lens Profiles menu, no idea why.

[NigelG]

If the lens has only been available as a 6-bit coded lens it will not appear as a choice in the menu.

The menu is only to select those lenses that were available pre-6 bit coding so the 11677 will not appear as it was never available un-coded.

Clean the code sensor window on your adapter and also the mount contacts on your CL and it should be recognised....

Edited September 24, 2021 by NigelG

[Camaro5]

I have this same lens but the Portugal version #11711.  It is 6 bit coded.  I use it on my M-P 240 and just tried it on my CL with an M-adapter-T #18771.  This is the same as the M-adapter-L and has the same catalogue number.

On the CL on Page 4 of the menu it does recognize the lens correctly.  Focus Peaking works fine but the magnification must be done manually.  On my camera it's the left dial.  Took a few twilight test shots and they were a little noisy at higher ISO but generally looked okay.  

[lct]

2 hours ago, NigelG said:

If the lens has only been available as a 6-bit coded lens it will not appear as a choice in the menu.
The menu is only to select those lenses that were available pre-6 bit coding so the 11677 will not appear as it was never available un-coded.

Many lenses listed in the menu are only available as 6-bit coded: 28/5.6 asph, 35/14 FLE, 50/1.4 asph, 50/2 apo, etc.

[RM8]

On 9/23/2021 at 1:15 AM, gotium said:

I think you should see the lens identified as long as you are using Leica's own M-L adapter (no other will read the 6-bit coding). Ain't gonna see the f-stop though. 

 

You mean the aperture stops down physically in the lens when you touch the shutter? Don't know how to explain that. 

That lens has an aperture ring, is a Leica, so indeed why would it not display f-stop with Leica M-L on a CL? Now putting the order for my own first Leica M lens on hold for the answer

[wda]

2 hours ago, RM8 said:

That lens has an aperture ring, is a Leica, so indeed why would it not display f-stop with Leica M-L on a CL? Now putting the order for my own first Leica M lens on hold for the answer

See my post #4

[Ricard0]

13 hours ago, NigelG said:

If the lens has only been available as a 6-bit coded lens it will not appear as a choice in the menu.

The menu is only to select those lenses that were available pre-6 bit coding so the 11677 will not appear as it was never available un-coded.

Clean the code sensor window on your adapter and also the mount contacts on your CL and it should be recognised....

I removed the lens and M-L adapter from the camera and re-attached both and that seems to have fixed it;  the lens is now correctly identified by the CL.  I think the problem was that the M-L adapter and lens were not completely mated.  It takes quite a bit of torque to get the lens to seat completely on the adapter and when I first put the lens and adapter together I was concerned about over doing it, so probably did not get them completely aligned.   I assume that with use it will become easier to mount/unmount the lens and adapter, although until / if I acquire additional M glass I'll likely just leave the adapter on the 28mm f/2.8.

Thanks all for the input and advice.  And sorry I've opened a can o' worms re. the lack of aperture setting in the camera display!  Although a bit disappointing as it means you've got to look away from the viewfinder to confirm aperture when setting up for a shot (unless you count clicks from full left or right position) I'm still happy to have the lens.   I went down the M path primarily for the size & weight factor, but also to force myself to get back to basics.   And the possibility of eventually moving into the M world.  I'm retiring from work in 8 months and fully intend to get back into the photography I loved so much as a young man.

-rich-

[Camaro5]

Well I had typed out an explanation but you seem to have figured it out.  Good luck with it.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Camaro5

[ramarren]

On 9/24/2021 at 8:13 AM, Ricard0 said:

I removed the lens and M-L adapter from the camera and re-attached both and that seems to have fixed it;  the lens is now correctly identified by the CL.  I think the problem was that the M-L adapter and lens were not completely mated.  It takes quite a bit of torque to get the lens to seat completely on the adapter and when I first put the lens and adapter together I was concerned about over doing it, so probably did not get them completely aligned.   I assume that with use it will become easier to mount/unmount the lens and adapter, although until / if I acquire additional M glass I'll likely just leave the adapter on the 28mm f/2.8.

Thanks all for the input and advice.  And sorry I've opened a can o' worms re. the lack of aperture setting in the camera display!  Although a bit disappointing as it means you've got to look away from the viewfinder to confirm aperture when setting up for a shot (unless you count clicks from full left or right position) I'm still happy to have the lens.   I went down the M path primarily for the size & weight factor, but also to force myself to get back to basics.   And the possibility of eventually moving into the M world.  I'm retiring from work in 8 months and fully intend to get back into the photography I loved so much as a young man.

-rich-

Yes, my experience is that Leica makes the M Adapter L to very tight specifications ... the first one I ordered was actually too tight and required more force to fit on the flange than I was comfortable with, and it often failed to recognize a lens. I sent it back as defective and received another in exchange. It was tight too, but locked on properly with a reasonable amount of force. I'm not sure but I believe that the lens release button on the CL might have a microswitch. The microswitch closes the circuit on the sensor ring when the lens release lock is fully engaged ... So if the mount adapter is not entirely seated correctly and the lens release lock isn't quite fully engaged, the microswitch doesn't close and the six-bit code sensor is not enabled. 

Then a watchmaker friend suggested the barest wipe of a little graphite-molybdenum grease on the mating surface of the lens mount flange would be good. I dipped a toothpick into his supply, just the very tip, and rolled it along an arc of the mounting flange. I then wiped that tiny amount around the flange with my fingertip. The flange felt dry to the touch, but now it slides and clicks into place easily, precisely, securely, positively ... every time. I've never had any problems with the mount adapter recognizing coded lenses since. 

Regards the aperture display, there is no connection between the body and the lens that transfers the current aperture setting. The lens profile that is sensed simply informs the body what the maximum aperture of the lens is; the actual setting has to be calculated and in previous Leica bodies that displayed the aperture dynamically, it was often incorrect by as much as a stop or two. Enough people complained about that that Leica decided it was better to simply disable dynamic aperture display, so you either look or you count clicks to make a precise setting. It's a compromise either way.

... Happily for me, it's never bothered me since I always set the aperture I want to use before bringing the camera to my eye ... an old habit from decades of simple, manual, meterless camera use—I set the shutter speed too, at the same time, and then adjust that based on the readout in a metered camera. I never change the aperture with the camera at my eye.  

G