Where can I buy an old Leica in the UK?

[kirkmc]

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7 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Whatever else you buy, consider getting a collapsible 50mm ('5cm') lens, which makes the whole thing into a jacket pocket camera. Wider or longer lenses will need accessory finders, unless you have a IIIg and a 90mm. The original Leica single focal length floating frameline finders are excellent, but may approach the cost of the camera or lens for something like a 35mm; the 90mm and 135mm finders are generally cheaper, as are the corresponding lenses. The multi-finders aren't nearly as good.

I was definitely thinking of getting a 50mm lens. Thanks for the link to the manual; that's quite interesting. 

I'm not too concerned about the condition, and long as it is usable (ie, the shutter doesn't stick, etc.). This is really just, for now, a desire to do something interesting. 

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[Pyrogallol]

8 minutes ago, M9reno said:

PS: I just checked and the same lens is still for sale, several months later.  Still mis-described as “Contax/Nikon”, when the two mounts (though superficially the same) are not at all interchangeable (this lens will not focus on a Contax).  And still Exc+, no mention of the (literally glaring) oil inside (“perfect” was the word used later by the seller when referring to this lens).

https://wycameras.com/collections/nikon-mf-lenses/products/nikon-rf-nikkor-q-c-13-5cm-f-3-5-w-vf-chrome-exc-in-case

The lens probably has not sold because it seems to be overpriced, I bought one recently of the same period, similar serial number, for a third of the price asked for that one. While there is a small difference in the focussing between the Contax and Nikon rangefinder types I have not experienced it in practice. In response to a similar question in another topic here a while back I tested a Contax 85mm f2 lens on a Nikon body at close range and did not see any focus problems on prints I made. I would not describe the lens as “mis-described” as it can be used on both Nikon and Zeiss Contax bodies.

[M9reno]

15 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said:

The lens probably has not sold because it seems to be overpriced, I bought one recently of the same period, similar serial number, for a third of the price asked for that one. While there is a small difference in the focussing between the Contax and Nikon rangefinder types I have not experienced it in practice. In response to a similar question in another topic here a while back I tested a Contax 85mm f2 lens on a Nikon body at close range and did not see any focus problems on prints I made. I would not describe the lens as “mis-described” as it can be used on both Nikon and Zeiss Contax bodies.

Thanks. I’m truly surprised to know that your Contax 85 focused on a Nikon at close range.  If the lenses are indeed inter-compatible, why did Nikon bother to label copies of their “Nikon for Contax” lenses with a “C” on their barrel?  (Two of these lenses are sold here: http://www.peterloy.com/stock-list.php). 

PS:  some interesting discussion of the topic here: https://www.dantestella.com/technical/compat.html

Anyway, back to the topic: can’t recommend a shop that offends a customer by lecturing that oil on blades is perfect.

Edited September 20, 2021 by M9reno

[Pyrogallol]

26 minutes ago, M9reno said:

Thanks. I’m truly surprised to know that your Contax 85 focused on a Nikon at close range.  If the lenses are indeed inter-compatible, why did Nikon bother to label copies of their “Nikon for Contax” lenses with a “C” on their barrel?  (Two of these lenses are sold here: http://www.peterloy.com/stock-list.php). 

PS:  some interesting discussion of the topic here: https://www.dantestella.com/technical/compat.html

Anyway, back to the topic: can’t recommend a shop that offends a customer by lecturing that oil on blades is perfect.

Just now copied the two test prints I made. Both Nikon S2 with postwar Zeiss Contax 85mm f2 Sonnar (from Peter Loy), 500th at f8 on Pan F in Rodinal. There would have been some depth of field at f8 as it was a bright day and I couldn’t open up wider than f8. Focussed on the chrome front rails, the nearest rail on the close up of the boat bows. Copied from A4 size prints.

 

Gone right off topic and not even Leica pictures !

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Edited September 20, 2021 by Pyrogallol

[Doug A]

Besides the Voigtländer lenses, the screw mount canon rangefinder lenses are another alternative worth a serious look. Nikon made some Leica thread mount lenses too but they seem to sell for more than the Canon lenses. 

[caymanlawyer]

The canon 1.4 ltm (the ‘Japanese summilux’) is very good, especially for b/w, but it is heavy and unbalanced on a barnack. I have shot some amazing images using it at night though, so if nighttime shots are your thing it is worth considering. The pre asph summilux (and I love this lens) can be bought in LTM but you need deep pockets.

[Matlock]

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42 minutes ago, caymanlawyer said:

 The pre asph summilux (and I love this lens) can be bought in LTM but you need deep pockets.

Like this on my IIId?

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[jpattison]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:52 PM, M9reno said:

 

Anyway, back to the topic: can’t recommend a shop that offends a customer by lecturing that oil on blades is perfect.

and state that they use Stock Photos!

John

[Matlock]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:52 PM, M9reno said:

Thanks. I’m truly surprised to know that your Contax 85 focused on a Nikon at close range.  If the lenses are indeed inter-compatible, why did Nikon bother to label copies of their “Nikon for Contax” lenses with a “C” on their barrel?  (Two of these lenses are sold here: http://www.peterloy.com/stock-list.php). 

PS:  some interesting discussion of the topic here: https://www.dantestella.com/technical/compat.html

Anyway, back to the topic: can’t recommend a shop that offends a customer by lecturing that oil on blades is perfect.

Back off topic again, Voigtlander introduced two cameras in around 2005 the Bessa R2C and R2S (for Contax and Nikon mounts respectively). They included this helpful info in the instruction book. 

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Edited September 24, 2021 by Matlock

[M9reno]

48 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Back off topic again, Voigtlander introduced two cameras in around 2005 the Bessa R2C and R2S (for Contax and Nikon mounts respectively). They included this helpful info in the instruction book. 

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Thank you very much, Matlock.  It‘s absolutely clear that there must be a difference, as Nikon was marketing its lenses for Contax specifically designated with a C engraving on the barrel (very different from a red C on the front, next to the name of the lens, where it means Coated). There would be absolutely no reason to do this if the two mounts were interchangeable in more than outward appearance.

This is all well documented in, e.g. Rotoloni (The Complete Nikon Rangefinder System, 2007, p. 31).. Braczko (Nikon Faszination, 1988, p. 75):  “The wide-angles 25 and 35mm worked without difficulties on this German rangefinder [i.e. the Contax]: the 85-, 105-, and 135-mm Nikkor in Contax version received an upper-case C on the underside of the connection socket” (translated).

Yet, the folks at West Yorkshire Camera, having had this politely explained to them, continue to try to sell the lens as Contax/Nikon.  Can’t recommend!

[Matlock]

17 minutes ago, M9reno said:

Thank you very much, Matlock.  It‘s absolutely clear that there must be a difference, as Nikon was marketing its lenses for Contax specifically designated with a C engraving on the barrel (very different from a red C on the front, next to the name of the lens, where it means Coated). There would be absolutely no reason to do this if the two mounts were interchangeable in more than outward appearance.

This is all well documented in, e.g. Rotoloni (The Complete Nikon Rangefinder System, 2007, p. 31).. Braczko (Nikon Faszination, 1988, p. 75):  “The wide-angles 25 and 35mm worked without difficulties on this German rangefinder [i.e. the Contax]: the 85-, 105-, and 135-mm Nikkor in Contax version received an upper-case C on the underside of the connection socket” (translated).

Yet, the folks at West Yorkshire Camera, having had this politely explained to them, continue to try to sell the lens as Contax/Nikon.  Can’t recommend!

Yes it is inexplicable that such firms can continue to ignore, what is, common knowledge. Incidentally I have the Rotoloni book and it is a fantastic source of Information.

My S3 2000 Edition with friend.

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[M9reno]

15 minutes ago, Matlock said:

Yes it is inexplicable that such firms can continue to ignore, what is, common knowledge. Incidentally I have the Rotoloni book and it is a fantastic source of Information.

My S3 2000 Edition with friend.

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They basically want to sell the lens, come what may, and hope nobody notices.

Your taste in cameras is excellent, by the way.

[Pyrogallol]

3 hours ago, Matlock said:

Back off topic again, Voigtlander introduced two cameras in around 2005 the Bessa R2C and R2S (for Contax and Nikon mounts respectively). They included this helpful info in the instruction book. 

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Good concise description of the differences. I must stop saying that I had not experienced any problems.

Agree that “The Complete Nikon Rangefinder System” by Rotoloni is the best guide to the Nikon rangefinder cameras and lenses.

[M9reno]

To the OP: above all, whatever you do, do not buy from Peter Walnes, either through his website or his eBay store arri888. You will either receive nothing, or be receiving goods with doubtful title  See:

https://www.yell.com/biz/peter-walnes-penzance-8556246/

 

[Pyrogallol]

I have bought several things from Peter Walnes in the past without problems, but I have heard a few negative stories on this forum and elsewhere that he has had personal problems. Buying from him through E Bay you should have their refund protection. But then I have never spend more than a few hundred pounds on anything from E Bay. Over that I would stick to Red Dot or Peter Loy, I would recommend them. My latest buys from them include a Reid 3, Nikon S2 and Leica M4P, plus a few used lenses.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Pyrogallol

[Anbaric]

3 hours ago, M9reno said:

To the OP: above all, whatever you do, do not buy from Peter Walnes, either through his website or his eBay store arri888. You will either receive nothing, or be receiving goods with doubtful title  See:

https://www.yell.com/biz/peter-walnes-penzance-8556246/

Some disturbing feedback about high value items on ebay:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/fdbk/feedback_profile/arri888?filter=period:TWELVE_MONTHS,overall_rating:NEGATIVE

Negative reviews:

https://henstridge.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/peter-walnes-17904706.html

A thread that starts with positive reviews that go rapidly downhill:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3666710

An 'urgent warning':

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4574195

I believe I bought a lens from him a long time ago with no problems, back when he was part of Fieldgrass & Gale in the 2000s. I remember they ceased trading not long afterwards. It looks like they became insolvent when he was a director:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02678192

[dkCambridgeshire]

On 9/26/2021 at 8:00 AM, M9reno said:

To the OP: above all, whatever you do, do not buy from Peter Walnes, either through his website or his eBay store arri888. You will either receive nothing, or be receiving goods with doubtful title  See:

https://www.yell.com/biz/peter-walnes-penzance-8556246/

 

Now there's a surprise ... IIRC it's the fourth time they've 'gone under' ... when trading as Fieldgrass and Gale / Peter Walnes ... I stopped buying from them many years ago after receiving faulty items ... and they were so apologetic saying they had 'no idea' lens had fungus ... When it would have been very obvious any Tom, Dick or Baldrick. Also had to chase them for refunds. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by dkCambridgeshire

[tappouni]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:39 PM, kirkmc said:

I recently bought my first Leica, a Q2M. Since I used to shoot film several decades ago, I thought I might want to get an old Leica film camera. I’ve seen a few IIIC bodies around £300, and, while I’m sure they’re not great, I don’t mind playing around with a scruffy camera. If I buy something like that, how much can I expect to pay for a decent vintage lens? And can anyone recommend the best UK source for old Leica and lenses? I’m less interested in collecting- for now - than getting something I can use to get back into film shooting a bit. 

OP did you ever find one in the end? WYCameras do have a IIIb with a 50mm Summar up for £399 at the moment: https://wycameras.com/collections/leica-cameras/products/leica-iiib-w-5cm-f-2-summar-exc

I haven't used them personally (MPB is more my go-to, they have older Leica stuff from time to time) but have heard good things from people I know that used them. 

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[kirkmc]

50 minutes ago, tappouni said:

OP did you ever find one in the end? WYCameras do have a IIIb with a 50mm Summar up for £399 at the moment: https://wycameras.com/collections/leica-cameras/products/leica-iiib-w-5cm-f-2-summar-exc

I haven't used them personally (MPB is more my go-to, they have older Leica stuff from time to time) but have heard good things from people I know that used them. 

I called Croydon Photos a few weeks ago, and they were going to get back to me, but never did. I've been quite busy, so I haven't done anything about this since. I'll look into this one; this looks like it might be a good deal.

[AresDerRuderer]

I would also suggest to the OP to perhaps participate in auctions held by Flints Auction House, a small auction house in the UK (near Reading). They hold photographic auctions pretty regularly, every 3-4 months or so, and regularly include leica articles from the 20s to the 90s. Price wise, I'd say you might expect to get bang on market prices, as the bidding rarely gets crazy, but at the same time theres always people willing to compete. However, with buying from an auction house you get the added benefit of the descriptions and pictures actually matching and accurately describing the state of the equipment you are getting. I need hardly remind of the running meme that "Exc ++++++++" and "small dust: no affect to photography" listings on Ebay are. Furthermore, auction houses are far more proffesional to deal with, even in contrast to normal dealers, let alone eBay sellers.

As a point of referance, I bid and won my Black Paint Leica III (c. 1934) from them in 2019 for a resulting price of about 320£ after taxes and fees. The condition was so good, equivalent bodies on ebay list for 500-800£.

At the same time, sharking on eBay is definately the only real option of snagging a deal. I once successfully bid on a near mint 1935 Elmar 5cm/f3.5 for only 120£.

Edited October 21, 2021 by AresDerRuderer