mirrorless competition

[pgk]

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19 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

For the wides, there's no native 21mm and no 18mm prime at all in L mount.

I'm currently using the Sony 20mm f/1.8G and it is good; very, very good indeed. I hate to say it but it probably gives the 21mm SEM a run for its money and is a lot cheaper .....

[Simone_DF]

15 minutes ago, pgk said:

I'm currently using the Sony 20mm f/1.8G and it is good; very, very good indeed. I hate to say it but it probably gives the 21mm SEM a run for its money and is a lot cheaper .....

I had the 24mm 1.4 GM and it was really amazing

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

Everything else is excellent, but you can find same or better quality in both Canon and Sony mount.

The 24-90 is without contender.

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

The 21 & 24 Summicrons are in the pipeline,

Sure, I bet they are in the same pipeline as the SL2 update 

[IkarusJohn]

9 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Sure, I bet they are in the same pipeline as the SL2 update 

Probably longer.

I bought my first Leica in 2010.  Since that time, every new M camera has been a disappointment; every new camera (T, TL, TL2, CL, SL) has been an outrage; the special editions have offended everyone; Leica has taken forever to deliver new lenses; and when they do, they are unobtainium.

Nihil sub sole novum …

[BernardC]

3 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

For the wides, there's no native 21mm and no 18mm prime at all in L mount. No, Laowa doesn't have these, nor does Sigma. 

The only fast wide zoom is the Sigma, which is good but big and clunky, not to mention that doesn't support normal filters and it's "limited" to f2.8.

I'd buy a ultrafast 1.4 wide in the 18-24 range 

So... Sigma has a 14, 20, 24, 28 in 1.4 or 1.8, but there's no 18! Other than at least 3 zooms, an APS-C lens and two different M-mount options (never mind the legendary R 19mm)?

You are correct, the L-Mount is severely lacking in lens options!

By curiosity, I looked-up 18mm full frame mirrorless lenses on B&H. There are 2: the Batis and a Samyang/Rokinon. I guess that makes your choice easy.

There are some really nice 18s in the cine section, but those are huge and they require expensive PL adapters.

 

As far as outstanding Panasonic lenses are concerned, the 20-60 needs to be pointed-out. It's miles ahead of any competing kit lens, and that matters to anybody starting-out with the system. The PRO 16-35 is also unique, being extremely small and sharp. The new small primes are something that's hard to find in other systems as well. Nothing wrong with the other lenses, but they aren't as unique.

 

I know you are trying to convince us (or yourself) that L-Mount doesn't have a good lens choice, I don't think that's true anymore. There are more L-Mount lenses than either Z-mount or RF. Sure, Sony has more compatible lenses, but a lot of that is duplicated. Who needs 21 different kit zooms?

[Simone_DF]

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1 hour ago, BernardC said:

So... Sigma has a 14, 20, 24, 28 in 1.4 or 1.8, but there's no 18! Other than at least 3 zooms, an APS-C lens and two different M-mount options (never mind the legendary R 19mm)?

Hello? Those are the old DSLR mount lenses with a L mount adapter glued at the bottom. I wouldn't touch one of these with a barge pole, and buying them now it's a commercial suicide since they'll probably be superseeded by native DG DN mounts sooner than later.

Also I'm not trying to convince anybody that the L mount doesn't have a good lens choice, quite the opposite, it's much better than Nikon and Canon's current mirrorless lenses lineup, I'm just debunking your absurd claim that the Sony FE mount has less quality lenses than the L mount, because it's simply not true. Quoting you here:

"The L-Mount partners have released many more high-quality lenses than either Canon or Nikon. Sony offers more lenses in total, but they only have a small number of "G Master" and Zeiss high-quality lenses in their lineup."

I know you are trying to convince us (or yourself) that other brands don't have a good lens choice, I don't think that's true anymore.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Simone_DF

[BernardC]

48 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

I know you are trying to convince us (or yourself) that other brands don't have a good lens choice, I don't think that's true anymore.

I've been misunderstood. The original comment stated that L Mount lacks lenses. That may have been true when the SL was introduced, but it isn't anymore.

[Simone_DF]

4 hours ago, hansvons said:

The 24-90 is without contender.

Just leaving this here:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1433713-REG/canon_rf_28_70mm_f_2l_usm.html

Pick your poison. Better reach or up to 2 stops faster.

7 minutes ago, BernardC said:

I've been misunderstood. The original comment stated that L Mount lacks lenses. That may have been true when the SL was introduced, but it isn't anymore.

Fair enough 🙂

[northernlights]

leica SL has very good DNG files

Image 1: Leica SL with Canon 50mm f1.4 LTM made in the 1950s. Manual focus

image 2: Leica SL with SL 24-90 vario elmarit. Auto focus

image 3: Leica SL with Nikon AFS 300f4 IF-ED (ISO 3200) with double stacking adaptors KEF Nikon F-Leica M, Fotasy M adaptor L. Manual focus. 

image 4: Leica SL with Leica 50mm summicron APO M-mount with Fotasy M-L. Manual focus. 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited September 17, 2021 by northernlights

[Ko.Fe.]

  

I like SL output for been kind of close to M9. I like how Panasonic and Sigma came with reasonably priced L mount lenses. SL used prices are reasonable.

I checked batteries price and what is available... only for 285 USD... My M-E 220 works on 20 USD batteries for four + years now.

So, for mirrorless I'll stick with RF mount for now. Which is Canon FF mirrorless mount. Yes, they were late to the game just as Nikon, because majority of pros and even amateurs are still using, buying DSLRs. I see it everywhere I go. Most are still with DSLRs. P&S are gone, mirrorless still very rare on sports events or just not as common as DSLRs on the streets, at least in NA. Maybe pros are using Canon because they need pro service. Canon has one. Leica has none. Canon has on-line status report tool for service. Leica... 

And with F or EF adapter Canikon choice of AF lenses is huge. Including professional L series which are still in use by pros on events, in media on DSLRs. 

Canon R3 might be late and using nothing special EVF made by Sony, but it is their first digital camera to reincarnate focus by the eye.

[pgk]

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

I had the 24mm 1.4 GM and it was really amazing

If you haven't seen it, this is worth reading (and I'm not into web reviews but this guy isn't biased from what I have seen of his writing): https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2021/02/sony-fe-20mm-f1-8-g-optical-tests/

[caissa]

Somewhere in the web I saw that L mount has 55 lenses and Sony only 54. So who has a problem of missing choice ? 

For me the choice has exceeded the budget already since several months.

I also use adapted Zeiss/Contax lenses. There I have the missing 21 and 18, so I never noticed that something is missing.

[caissa]

3 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

  

I like SL output for been kind of close to M9. I like how Panasonic and Sigma came with reasonably priced L mount lenses. SL used prices are reasonable.

I checked batteries price and what is available... only for 285 USD... My M-E 220 works on 20 USD batteries for four + years now.

So, for mirrorless I'll stick with RF mount for now. Which is Canon FF mirrorless mount. Yes, they were late to the game just as Nikon, because majority of pros and even amateurs are still using, buying DSLRs. I see it everywhere I go. Most are still with DSLRs. P&S are gone, mirrorless still very rare on sports events or just not as common as DSLRs on the streets, at least in NA. Maybe pros are using Canon because they need pro service. Canon has one. Leica has none. Canon has on-line status report tool for service. Leica... 

And with F or EF adapter Canikon choice of AF lenses is huge. Including professional L series which are still in use by pros on events, in media on DSLRs. 

Canon R3 might be late and using nothing special EVF made by Sony, but it is their first digital camera to reincarnate focus by the eye.

I use external batteries, they cost about 50 dollars and last several days (on very heavy usage at least a day). So I have altogether only 3 internal batteries - 2 of them came with the two cameras.

So my decision will certainly not be steered by the price of batteries. 😁🤓

Ok I use SL2, which has this option. I use SL rarely.

Edited September 17, 2021 by caissa

[Ko.Fe.]

9 minutes ago, caissa said:

I use external batteries, they cost about 50 dollars and last several days (on very heavy usage at least a day). So I have altogether only 3 internal batteries - 2 of them came with the two cameras.

So my decision will certainly not be steered by the price of batteries. 😁🤓

External batteries? 🤣

In soviet we had anecdote about it:

"Here is new wrist watch from Slava factory. It is electronic!!! Requires battery in the suitcase to operate. "

Edited September 17, 2021 by Ko.Fe.

[caissa]

Yes it is in the camera bag. It is no problem for me. Even in old times (80s, 90s) I used an external battery in winter (in the coat). For me, I was just glad I could be shooting in all conditions. It is as heavy as an apple 🍎 or an orange 🍊 .

[Simone_DF]

30 minutes ago, caissa said:

Somewhere in the web I saw that L mount has 55 lenses and Sony only 54. So who has a problem of missing choice ? 

I also use adapted Zeiss/Contax lenses. There I have the missing 21 and 18, so I never noticed that something is missing.

For 21mm I'm using my good old Voigtlander Ultron, but adapted lenses are not native lenses, aren't they?

I see on BH that the L mount has 94 lenses, this includes APS-C lenses and also the old Sigmas with the glued adapter.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?filters=fct_lens-mount_3442%3Aleica-l-mount%2Cfct_lenses-kits_7315%3Alenses-only

If I switch to Sony FE mount, the number jumps to 308. This too includes APS-C lenses and the same old Sigmas with the glued adapter

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Mirrorless-Camera-Lenses/ci/17912/N/4196380428?filters=fct_lens-mount_3442%3Asony-e-mount%2Cfct_lenses-kits_7315%3Alenses-only

If we stick to full frame, it's 204 for Sony and 75 for Leica. Do we need all these lenses? Not at all, but I'm glad I have the choice and that I can mix and match based on different strenght (portability, performance etc)

Sony has many issues, from a menu interface designed by a UI engineer that never went past Geocities websites to crappy color science, but their lens lineup is not one of them, quite the opposite, it's one of their biggest selling point.

[Mr.Q]

Yes, the 20/1.8 is very useful as it's the perfect FOV for casual video. AF-C sticks to an iris and doesn't let go.  Extremely small and silent.  I hear it's great for astro too but I haven't had the chance to try yet.  There's no such versatile wide-angle lens in L-mount unfortunately.

[hansvons]

19 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Pick your poison. Better reach or up to 2 stops faster

It’s not like that necessarily. Specs matter, also in terms of creative potential, but focus roll-off, colour rendition, contrast, dimensionality (the lack thereof can be needed by times) and flaring are more important to me. In that regard, if dimensionality matters to you, the 24-90 plays in an own league, so does the Canon 28-70 f2 in a very different way. Other than being zooms I find hardly common ground of the two. The 28-70 renders pretty flat (in 2019 I had it a few weeks to my disposal). I need that from time to time for portraits but use for that a 50mm Summicron R from the eighties that also flares very nicely. In the end, it all depends on your and your clients’ needs.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I have no idea why anyone would buy into a system that doesn't have the lenses you need. If it does, then the answer to how many are available?, is enough. If not, buy something else. I don't give a flying fig that Sony has more lenses (although I remember the same whining when they launched with two lenses). All I care about is that the lenses I want are available. My original SL's made me enough to pay off a house. The system had what I wanted so I bought in. What I didn't do was whinge about what it didn't have or its AF or what it didn't do. Because I did my research before I went in.

I like the Leica lenses over pretty much anything else (except HB's XCD line up.). I've got a room full of Fuji, Sony, Olympus, Panasonic etc.., and in nearly every case the SL glass is better. The SL zoom tri is as good as it gets. The 16-35 is by some way the best wide zoom available.

It 'aint that hard. If you want a Canon lens, buy a Canon body.....

Gordon