Advice - Q2 vs M10

[Craig Clark]

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Hey everyone - i contemplated trading my Q2 in for an SL2S and after much deliberation decided not to....but now a friend of mine is wanting a Q2 and offered to trade me his M10 (in great condition) for the Q2.  I am and have been intrigued by the rangefinder system and being that I have a Q2 Monochrom, this offer is tempting.  I am curious though, for those of you who own both a Q2 and an M10 (I think there are a few of you on here), how does color rendition differ between the two cameras?  I dont have a lot of spare cash at the moment and am looking at picking up the Zeiss 50mm f1.5 if I do trade...so the lens will impact my results obviously.  I love the saturated punchy colors I get from the Q2 and am just curious if I will regret the trade.  

On another note, it seems like from an investment point of view, the M10 is holding its value better than the Q2.  Do you guys think this is true?  

[Herr Barnack]

Quote

"...how does color rendition differ between the two cameras?"

I have a Q2, but my M10 is the M10 Monochrom, so i can't compare color rendition.

My thought is this:  You and your friend should swap cameras for a week or two and shoot as much as possible, then decide if both of you still want to trade. 

As far as holding value, the Q2 is "current" with no replacement (Q3) on the horizon.  On the other hand, the M10 is allegedly going to be replaced by the M11 on Nov. 11 of this year.  When/if that happens, I would expect the value of the M10 to take a big hit, as there will be around 50 billion of them traded in to help finance M11 purchases.

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[Craig Clark]

28 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

I have a Q2, but my M10 is the M10 Monochrom, so i can't compare color rendition.

My thought is this:  You and your friend should swap cameras for a week or two and shoot as much as possible, then decide if both of you still want to trade. 

As far as holding value, the Q2 is "current" with no replacement (Q3) on the horizon.  On the other hand, the M10 is allegedly going to be replaced by the M11 on Nov. 11 of this year.  When/if that happens, I would expect the value of the M10 to take a big hit, as there will be around 50 billion of them traded in to help finance M11 purchases.

 

Thank you!  Unfortunately my friend lives in London at the moment and I’m in Washington DC.  Maybe we could do a trial swap.  Good to know about the release of the M11 - I may be able to use this info to sweeten the deal.  
 

I’m still curious about others experience with the regular M10 if anyone cares to chime in.  

[Anakronox]

I own and shoot both color and Monochrom versions of each.  The colors are slightly more saturated straight out of camera with the Q2 from what I notice, partly due to the lens.  In my opinion, nothing that can’t be equalized with an import preset in Lightroom or a recipe in Capture One.  As Herr Barnack said, the only way to know if you’ll get along is to try it out first, so as to not regret the trade later.  And you correctly realize that lens choice on the M10 will make a big difference. 

[T25UFO]

On 9/8/2021 at 6:17 PM, Craig Clark said:

I am and have been intrigued by the rangefinder system

Being intrigued is not the same as using a rangefinder - it's quite different to using a Q2.  I have both and actually find the rangefinder quicker to focus than using a Q2 manually, but that's just me.  If you haven't used a rangefinder under a variety of conditions then @Herr Barnack advice is good - try before you buy.

Q, SL and M maybe members of the same Leica family, but the M is a completely different photographic experience.

[Craig Clark]

2 hours ago, T25UFO said:

Being intrigued is not the same as using a rangefinder - it's quite different to using a Q2.  I have both and actually find the rangefinder quicker to focus than using a Q2 manually, but that's just me.  If you haven't used a rangefinder under a variety of conditions then @Herr Barnack advice is good - try before you buy.

Q, SL and M maybe members of the same Leica family, but the M is a completely different photographic experience.

I agree on all counts.  I will say that the Leica DC store allowed me to toy around with an M10 with a 50mm lens and I was quite intimidated by how small the focus box is.  As someone who wears bifocals, it was somewhat challenging to determine whether I had things lined up perfectly.

I know there is the DOF scale...but I wouldnt want to have to rely solely on that method of composing / focusing.  It may be best for me to stick with what I have...it could be GAS anyway.  

[Stuart Richardson]

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If you have some level of diminished vision, I would be quite careful. I once had the Chinese ambassador here come to my studio and talk to me because he wanted to buy a full Leica system, with a Noctilux, two cameras, several other lenses etc. He was ready to drop tens of thousands of dollars. He tried to focus with my camera and quickly found that his eyesight was not good enough to focus accurately. Rangefinders require good discrimination of contrast in a fairly small area. It only gets harder in lower light and when you get older...if you are not used to it and have difficulty, it is probably not the best choice. An SL camera would be a better choice in that case, as you could use M lenses with magnification and focus confirmation, as well as AF lenses.

Another consideration is that the M10 has 24mp vs 47mp and (at least in my opinion), an older and technically inferior sensor. I had more issues with banding on the M10 than I have had on the SL2, which shares the sensor with the Q2. If I were going to go for a 24mp camera these days, the SL2S is the one with the best current image. If there is an update with an M11, then that may change, but it is another consideration. I am not trying to knock the M10 too badly...it is a very good camera, but it is also several years old at this point, and sensor performance is getting better and better.

 

P.S. I don't want to discourage you from trying a rangefinder. They can be very quick to focus and use if you learn some tricks (looking for high contrast edges, like streetlight poles, walls, pictures, peoples eye's etc), but you need to have the visual acuity to use them. It is a different way of focusing than an SLR, and it has its advantages and disadvantages that are hard to judge without working with them for awhile (not just focusing in camera in a shop, but taking pictures and confirming you are actually spot on when you think you are).

Edited September 10, 2021 by Stuart Richardson

[Craig Clark]

1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

If you have some level of diminished vision, I would be quite careful. I once had the Chinese ambassador here come to my studio and talk to me because he wanted to buy a full Leica system, with a Noctilux, two cameras, several other lenses etc. He was ready to drop tens of thousands of dollars. He tried to focus with my camera and quickly found that his eyesight was not good enough to focus accurately. Rangefinders require good discrimination of contrast in a fairly small area. It only gets harder in lower light and when you get older...if you are not used to it and have difficulty, it is probably not the best choice. An SL camera would be a better choice in that case, as you could use M lenses with magnification and focus confirmation, as well as AF lenses.

Another consideration is that the M10 has 24mp vs 47mp and (at least in my opinion), an older and technically inferior sensor. I had more issues with banding on the M10 than I have had on the SL2, which shares the sensor with the Q2. If I were going to go for a 24mp camera these days, the SL2S is the one with the best current image. If there is an update with an M11, then that may change, but it is another consideration. I am not trying to knock the M10 too badly...it is a very good camera, but it is also several years old at this point, and sensor performance is getting better and better.

 

P.S. I don't want to discourage you from trying a rangefinder. They can be very quick to focus and use if you learn some tricks (looking for high contrast edges, like streetlight poles, walls, pictures, peoples eye's etc), but you need to have the visual acuity to use them. It is a different way of focusing than an SLR, and it has its advantages and disadvantages that are hard to judge without working with them for awhile (not just focusing in camera in a shop, but taking pictures and confirming you are actually spot on when you think you are).

Thank you so much for the replete response....this is fantastic info and insight.  I am thinking if I do make a move, the SL system with M glass is probably the route I will go.  

[Jeff S]

On 9/10/2021 at 7:25 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

Another consideration is that the M10 has 24mp vs 47mp and (at least in my opinion), an older and technically inferior sensor. I had more issues with banding on the M10 than I have had on the SL2, which shares the sensor with the Q2. If I were going to go for a 24mp camera these days, the SL2S is the one with the best current image. If there is an update with an M11, then that may change, but it is another consideration. I am not trying to knock the M10 too badly...it is a very good camera, but it is also several years old at this point, and sensor performance is getting better and better.

 

 

The M10-R already bridges the gap with near 41MP and several additional improvements to the M10 sensor (dual gain architecture, 10% more area for non-electronics, and refined pixel shape), if one prefers the RF experience.

Jeff