Q2 monochrom questions

[kirkmc]

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I've long wanted a monochrome camera, and I'm seriously considering getting the Q2M. I currently shoot Fujifilm, and have never owned a Leica, so the cost worries me a bit, though with the Q2, at least I wouldn't be buying any additional lenses. I'm just a bit worried that it's too limiting; I would prefer a 50mm lens, or, at a stretch, a 35mm. I assume there's no way to add a converter to the lens, as Fuji does for its X100 series...? I know that with 47 Mp, cropping is possible, but how much is left when you crop to something like a 50mm equivalent? 

I'd certainly prefer the M monochrom, but that comes to almost double the cost, with a decent lens, and I can't really afford that. 

Thanks.

[jaapv]

The whole point of the Q2 is that you obtain longer focal lengths through cropping. Given that one can produce an excellent A3+ print with 8-10 MP, you won't run out of pixels.

A converter would give sub-par results, as these adapters always do.

[kirkmc]

I guess one thing is that I'm used to APS-C, with currently 24 Mp, so having twice that many pixels to start with gives a lot of room. 

When you set a crop in the camera, what do you see in the viewfinder? Frame lines over the 28mm image, or the image as it would appear cropped?

[Dennis]

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here you go.

as you see the 35, 50 and 75mm frame lines on Q2(M) camera

[kirkmc]

Thanks. You see that in the viewfinder as well, I assume? 

[Ba Erv]

https://www.macfilos.com/2019/04/03/leica-q2-the-joys-of-crop-to-zoom/

[Herr Barnack]

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2 hours ago, kirkmc said:

I've long wanted a monochrome camera, and I'm seriously considering getting the Q2M. I currently shoot Fujifilm, and have never owned a Leica, so the cost worries me a bit, though with the Q2, at least I wouldn't be buying any additional lenses. I'm just a bit worried that it's too limiting; I would prefer a 50mm lens, or, at a stretch, a 35mm. I assume there's no way to add a converter to the lens, as Fuji does for its X100 series...? I know that with 47 Mp, cropping is possible, but how much is left when you crop to something like a 50mm equivalent? 

I'd certainly prefer the M monochrom, but that comes to almost double the cost, with a decent lens, and I can't really afford that. 

Thanks.

You can use the Q2 Monochrom's 28mm focal length to create essentially the same field of view as a 50mm lens - all you have to do is get closer to your subject and fill the frame. 

A lot if not most of the time this is possible - if you are standing at the rim of the Grand Canyon, it is not.  But for other situations where you can get closer to your subject, step closer; do your "cropping" in camera where you can do it without sacrificing megapixels.  It just takes a bit of a different way of thinking and a bit of discipline, that's all. 

The Q2M's 47 mp sensor is thought of as a boon to cropping, which it is.  I think of it as a boon to high resolution printing.  I will crop if it is absolutely necessary, but I try to limit cropping to 5-10% of the image for printing purposes.  If you don't intend to make large exhibit quality prints, cropping for digital sharing is almost a non-issue with the Q2 cameras.

With the Q2 and Q2M, the challenge lies in learning how to most effectively use the 28mm focal length. 

The article linked in @Ba Erv's post states in part,

Quote

"...Sadly, irrespective of the crop, the Q2’s output retains the generous depth of field of a 28mm lens. Even when cropped to a 75mm equivalent, this lens will win no bokehthon..." 

The author neglects to mention that if you get close to your main subject, focus on it and shoot at f/1.7, the Q2's lens will produce bokeh.  It will also produce bokeh when shooting at the maximum aperture of f/2.8 for macro mode.

The Q2/Q2M's 28mm f/1.7 Summilux presents some minor challenges to the photographer, but they are easily addressed.  This is a camera for the thinking photographer who is willing to learn to maximize the lens' performance within the framework of its capabilities, which is what makes the Q2 such a great camera.  It makes the user think - and in different ways from how M cameras make the user think. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Herr Barnack

[kirkmc]

2 hours ago, Ba Erv said:

https://www.macfilos.com/2019/04/03/leica-q2-the-joys-of-crop-to-zoom/

That's interesting. It's not how I currently think of shooting photos, but I guess with 47 Mp, and the added detail from the monochrome sensor, it could work. The fact that frame lines are visible is certainly helpful. 

[kirkmc]

1 hour ago, Herr Barnack said:

You can use the Q2 Monochrom's 28mm focal length to create essentially the same field of view as a 50mm lens - all you have to do is get closer to your subject and fill the frame.

Yes, of course, but as you say, that's not always possible. I'm thinking that, other than the Grand Canyon, sometimes you don't want to get too close to people you're photographing because that may distract them. 

 

Quote

The Q2/Q2M's 28mm f/1.7 Summilux presents some minor challenges to the photographer, but they are easily addressed.  This is a camera for the thinking photographer who is willing to learn to maximize the lens' performance within the framework of its capabilities, which is what makes the Q2 such a great camera.  It makes the user think - and in different ways from how M cameras make the user think. 

That's interesting as well. My focal length of choice has generally been 50mm, and this goes back to having started with film in the early 1980s, when the standard lens you'd get with a camera was a 50mm. But I can see the interest in this type of lens, especially since the frame lines do clearly delineate where crops are (and I wouldn't necessarily stick to those exact crops, I'd later crop from raw files). I have always thought, however, of composing in the full frame that I see, so this will be different. (I've never used a rangefinder.) 

[Ba Erv]

Hopefully, the article provides some food for thought.  Here’s an example of a 50mm crop on the Q2M.  I feel confident it would withstand a 20x30” print.  That’s as far as I’m going down this rabbit hole.

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[Budfox]

For price / quality the Q2M is definitely the best option. I have had the original MM (x2), and 246M, but have ended up with just the Q2M which I have found to be the most fun and versatile.

An M monochrom does give greater flexibility with lens choice. But the option for autofocus, preview in B&W with the EVF, built in macro functionality, and the pure speed and lighter body make the Q2M a real joy to use. I mostly use mine cropped to 35mm which gives an M feel to the viewfinder.

I do have a colour M with a few lenses that I still use of course, and which makes a nice flexible combination for me at least. But I find myself reaching for the Q2M more often than not nowadays.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Budfox
Improve readability.

[Budfox]

An an addendum, on the cropping issue, I have had six large A4 to A3 size prints on my wall at home for the last 7 years. They are various landscape and cityscape pics from around 2001 and 2006-ish. The cameras used were an Olympus E-10 (4mp) and Nikon D2x (12mp). And the pics were definitely further cropped in post before printing.

It has never occurred to me, or been mentioned by any observers, that these pics are any lesser because of the lower megapixels.

(I should have never sold those cameras!)

[Mark II]

I went with a Q2M rather than an M10M.

IMO, you should really only consider the Q over an M if you strongly prefer the 28-35mm focal length. Cropping does not just give lower resolution, but also (equivalent) increases in noise and less DOF control. I do not use the in-camera cropping at all, although I sometimes crop down to ~35mm in post processing to improve framing.

In comparison to the M10(M), the Q2M has several major advantages:

• there is much better eye relief, so even with glasses I can easily see the entire frame
• the EVF framing is exact, which I find is more important for wider angle shots than 35mm or longer
• the EVF makes managing exact exposure very straightforward and quick
• the close-focus/semi-macro capability is a huge plus with a wide angle lens
• the camera and lens are fully sealed

When shooting I mostly use auto-focus in spot mode, with manual aperture, ISO and shutter speed. Using the blinking over-exposure indication, it is very quick and easy to set exposure to what you want - unlike the M10 series when used with the rangefinder.

The only downsides, aside from the obvious fixed focal length, appear to be from the lens/optical assembly itself. The lens is perfectly sharp in the centre at all apertures, but this is achieved at the expense of somewhat busy/double-edged bokeh. It is not worse than most competing fast 28mm lenses (including the Summilux-M), but I still prefer the much smoother rendering of the Summicron-M.

Another issue is lens flare, which is sometimes problematic. With the sun just out of frame, there is some veiling flare (fogging), which is not objectionable and which can add useful character. However, with the sun directly in frame, there is frequently a small and bright double-spot of light that is almost impossible to avoid and which is quite difficult to remove in post processing if necessary. There are also some circumstances where you will see a dot-like pattern which is quite intrusive. All lenses flare when shot like this, but it is hard to make artistic use of the effect with the Q2M.

That said, there are no regrets here, and for the viewfinder eye relief and reliable exposure accuracy alone I prefer shooting the Q2M to the M10. As others have said, Leica really ought to make a Q2 variant with an M mount and EVF with range-finder emulation.

 

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[prk60091]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:38 PM, kirkmc said:

Yes, of course, but as you say, that's not always possible. I'm thinking that, other than the Grand Canyon, sometimes you don't want to get too close to people you're photographing because that may distract them. 

 

That's interesting as well. My focal length of choice has generally been 50mm, and this goes back to having started with film in the early 1980s, when the standard lens you'd get with a camera was a 50mm. But I can see the interest in this type of lens, especially since the frame lines do clearly delineate where crops are (and I wouldn't necessarily stick to those exact crops, I'd later crop from raw files). I have always thought, however, of composing in the full frame that I see, so this will be different. (I've never used a rangefinder.) 

Kirk

 

there are 59 pages of images to look at  on *this* forum- many have been cropped- on many you can see good examples of bokeh.

 

 

 

I have prints hanging in my home A1 sized (actually 24" x 36") made from the Leica X1 (an APC sensor with an effective 35mm FOV) and they look spectacular. My Q images (with only a 24MP sensor) are very nice as well.

I dare say any image you take with the Q2M cropped to effective 50mm FOV  will look equally as nice if not better.

 

The hard part will be paying for all the A1 prints you will be making and framing

Edited September 1, 2021 by prk60091