Mauribix Posted August 31, 2007 Share #1 Posted August 31, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi folks, a new dilemma.... I would like to consider a new A4 printer...dunno which. Suggestion well accepted... cheers Maurizio MAURIZIO BEUCCI.com - Official web site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 31, 2007 Posted August 31, 2007 Hi Mauribix, Take a look here What is the best A4 printer for M8 B/W ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shootist Posted August 31, 2007 Share #2 Posted August 31, 2007 Hp B9180 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidStone Posted August 31, 2007 Share #3 Posted August 31, 2007 Hi folks,a new dilemma.... I would like to consider a new A4 printer...dunno which. Suggestion well accepted... cheers Maurizio MAURIZIO BEUCCI.com - Official web site I got the Epson Stylus D88 Plus, which is ridiculously cheap, and then the MIS continuous flow system, for gloss paper. Once I'd got to grips with the necessary software tricks and adjustments, it works even better than I'd expected. Amazingly good results for minimum outlay. I thought it would be OK for proofing, but it's far better than that. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walt Posted August 31, 2007 Share #4 Posted August 31, 2007 The HP B9180 is a two-black printer and I would not recommend it for BW printing. The HP Z3100 is a three or four black printer (glossy/matte), but 24". The Epson 2400 is an excellent A4 printer for BW and color, using three blacks for BW, and the Epson Advanced Black and White driver (deliverd with the printer) is excellent. I have not used the newest Canon printers, though I hear good things about them. For BW work you need three or four blacks, some like Jon Cone would say more though I don't think that's true. Walt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted August 31, 2007 Share #5 Posted August 31, 2007 I use an older Epson Stylus Photo 2100. Picked it up 2nd hand for a song. I've dedicated it to my B&W work and use Mediastreet Generations Quad inks. I chose those as I mostly use Lustre type papers. If you're using matte papers try the K7 inks from Inkjet Mall. No colour cast issues with all neutral inks. - Carl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted August 31, 2007 Share #6 Posted August 31, 2007 I would strongly recommend either the Epson 2400 or the Epson 3800 depending on your budget. The 3800 can print up to 17 inches wide whereas the 2400 is limited to 13 inches. Both use the K3 Inkset which does a terrific job for black and white. In conjunction with the Advanced Black and White mode these are the best printers for black and white I have seen. You can also subscribe to the Black and White forum which has incredible depth of detail on all things black and white Woody Spedden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrmd Posted August 31, 2007 Share #7 Posted August 31, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can't speak for the Epson 2400, but I agree with Woody, the 3800 is a top notch printer. Especially for B&W. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asfeir Posted August 31, 2007 Share #8 Posted August 31, 2007 The HP B9180 is a two-black printer and I would not recommend it for BW printing. The HP Z3100 is a three or four black printer (glossy/matte), but 24". The Epson 2400 is an excellent A4 printer for BW and color, using three blacks for BW, and the Epson Advanced Black and White driver (deliverd with the printer) is excellent. I have not used the newest Canon printers, though I hear good things about them. For BW work you need three or four blacks, some like Jon Cone would say more though I don't think that's true. Walt The HP B9180 is two balck and one gray. Getting great results on fine arts paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicashot Posted August 31, 2007 Share #9 Posted August 31, 2007 To answer your question: Epson R800. There is a reason it has been one of Epson's longest running models, unlike their A3 range.......two b+w cartridges Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walt Posted September 1, 2007 Share #10 Posted September 1, 2007 The HP B9180 is two balck and one gray. Getting great results on fine arts paper. Abudi, I believe that the two blacks in the 9180 are MK and PK for matte and glossy papers respectively. If this is true (and please correct me if I'm wrong), only one black and the gray are used for a given print, depending on the paper. The HP 3100 and Epson 2400/3800/4800 use four (HP) or three (Epson) blacks simultaneously for a given print. The question was about BW printing. When only two blacks are used for a BW print, gradations are accomplished through dithering, producing a rougher print. Extra blacks allow smoother transitions. For BW printing, two blacks are a compromise. Walt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 1, 2007 Share #11 Posted September 1, 2007 Abudi, I believe that the two blacks in the 9180 are MK and PK for matte and glossy papers respectively. If this is true (and please correct me if I'm wrong), only one black and the gray are used for a given print, depending on the paper. The HP 3100 and Epson 2400/3800/4800 use four (HP) or three (Epson) blacks simultaneously for a given print. The question was about BW printing. When only two blacks are used for a BW print, gradations are accomplished through dithering, producing a rougher print. Extra blacks allow smoother transitions. For BW printing, two blacks are a compromise. Walt S you also own a HP B9180. If not please stop commenting on what B&W prints look like coming off the HP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebert Posted September 1, 2007 Share #12 Posted September 1, 2007 I would definitevely go with the 3800 of Epson for B&W (or Epson 2400). For B&W pics on gloss or semi gloss (I use Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl) combined with the "Advanced B&W" option, you will get full range b&w prints with deep blacks, details in the shadows, perfect neutrality. I have tried many other solutions (starting with piezo on an Epson 1160), then an Epson 4000: the results were not terrible. But now with the 3800, the results in b&w are just here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asfeir Posted September 1, 2007 Share #13 Posted September 1, 2007 Abudi, I believe that the two blacks in the 9180 are MK and PK for matte and glossy papers respectively. If this is true (and please correct me if I'm wrong), only one black and the gray are used for a given print, depending on the paper. The HP 3100 and Epson 2400/3800/4800 use four (HP) or three (Epson) blacks simultaneously for a given print. The question was about BW printing. When only two blacks are used for a BW print, gradations are accomplished through dithering, producing a rougher print. Extra blacks allow smoother transitions. For BW printing, two blacks are a compromise. Walt You are right about the MK and PK black inks, except that I am not sure whether both inks are not also used. I mostly print on fine arts paper, and I see both levels decreasing, although the MK is dropping faster. In any case, I am very happy with the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Walt Posted September 1, 2007 Share #14 Posted September 1, 2007 S you also own a HP B9180. If not please stop commenting on what B&W prints look like coming off the HP. Ed- I'm not sure ownership is the issue here or that this forum limits comments to those from people who own a particular piece of equipment. I was responding to a broad question about recommendations for BW printing and responding out of a very good theoretical and practical knowledge of BW inkjet printing. I have seen output from a very wide range of HP and Epson printers and I do not think there is any question that three blacks in the minimum for the highest quality output in BW. If an individual is happy with his own output from a particular printer, that is fine, but it is not the only way to answer such a question. For those interested, the Yahoo Groups "Digital Black and White The Print" is an excellent forum on this topic: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint : Digital BW, The Print Walt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted September 1, 2007 Share #15 Posted September 1, 2007 To answer your question: Epson R800. There is a reason it has been one of Epson's longest running models, unlike their A3 range.......two b+w cartridges For colour the R800 is awsome. For B&W it isn't, unless you use neutral inks like K7. I've tried and tried and tried and not been able to get rid of the colour casts. That is why I ended up getting a 2100 that I dedicated for B&W and use the R800 for colour. - C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hofrench Posted September 1, 2007 Share #16 Posted September 1, 2007 Let me put in my vote for the B9180. I own one and I make prints for sale with it and couldn't be more pleased with the results. That's not actually true. I wish it could take rolls, but other than that, it has exceeded my expectations in every way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 1, 2007 Share #17 Posted September 1, 2007 I have had both the Epson R800 and R1800. I think without a doubt, they are the most troublesome and expensive printers I have ever had. They drink ink, block heads and often need deep cleans. If the head does not clear, it is an absurdly expensive trip to the Epson service centre, who in the UK, are some of the stupidest, most unhelpful people it has ever been my displeasure to meet. The roll feed system is a nightmare and reguarly chews up expensive rolls of 260 GSM paper. My brother has just bought an HP B9180 on my recommendation, as I have one at my French house and I think it is a great printer. He was complaining that at A4, his HP6180 all in one was at least as good, if not slightly better than the B9180 and looking at the prints from JPEG via Windoze, I would have to agree the the 6180 was sharper if not quite as true colour. The 6180 would therefore be my recommendation for an A4 printer. However I think you will soon want to print bigger so ultimately, I would say go for a B9180 - the price is coming down all the time. The running costs on ink of the B9180 are about 1/2 to 1/3rd of my R1800. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 1, 2007 Share #18 Posted September 1, 2007 I have had both the Epson R800 and R1800. I think without a doubt, they are the most troublesome and expensive printers I have ever had. They drink ink, block heads and often need deep cleans. If the head does not clear, it is an absurdly expensive trip to the Epson service centre, who in the UK, are some of the stupidest, most unhelpful people it has ever been my displeasure to meet. The roll feed system is a nightmare and reguarly chews up expensive rolls of 260 GSM paper. My brother has just bought an HP B9180 on my recommendation, as I have one at my French house and I think it is a great printer. He was complaining that at A4, his HP6180 all in one was at least as good, if not slightly better than the B9180 and looking at the prints from JPEG via Windoze, I would have to agree the the 6180 was sharper if not quite as true colour. The 6180 would therefore be my recommendation for an A4 printer. However I think you will soon want to print bigger so ultimately, I would say go for a B9180 - the price is coming down all the time. The running costs on ink of the B9180 are about 1/2 to 1/3rd of my R1800. Wilson Wilson, really your evaluation of the ink cost is this ? That's an important info for me... I'm planning for a B9180 OR a R1800 and the cost-for-print is a parameter it's unclear on my mind... I'm waiting to see other posts on these two for I'm at the moment very uncertain about my choice (btw, I plan color for 80%); I've always appreciated HP gear in general... but Epson brand seems so strong in photo printers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 2, 2007 Share #19 Posted September 2, 2007 Wilson, really your evaluation of the ink cost is this ? That's an important info for me... I'm planning for a B9180 OR a R1800 and the cost-for-print is a parameter it's unclear on my mind... I'm waiting to see other posts on these two for I'm at the moment very uncertain about my choice (btw, I plan color for 80%); I've always appreciated HP gear in general... but Epson brand seems so strong in photo printers... Luigi, I really do mean it on the ink costs. The Epsons only use about 65 to 70% of the ink in their carts and the carts are small anyway. You have the added expense of the chips in the carts. I always seem to be replacing the carts in the Epsons. I have had the B9180 since April and I have printed I would guess about 80 A3+ prints and lots of A4. I have still have not replaced all of the original carts that came with the printer, which I expected to replace in the first few weeks, as normally, the original set arrive half full. HP service is superb. I had a faulty one delivered on the Thursday before Easter - it would not intialise at all, making broken gearbox noises. HP apologised that due to Easter holidays, they could not get me a replacement immediately. One arrived on the Tuesday after Easter. This one worked but spat out one of the tiny paper guide rollers on the first print. I phoned up, now somewhat irate, even though the printer seemed to work without the roller. They delivered a second replacement by taxi the same day. When I was having a problem with the roll feed on my R1800, the engineer who called, wrecked a whole roll of 220mm wide 260gsm paper - not cheap and then said it was not his problem. It took four months and lots of phone calls to get Epson, with very ill grace, to replace the paper roll. I think the big Epsons 9800 etc are a totally different kettle of fish. They are very good and I gather it is a wholly different service operation that looks after you in comparison to the idiots who look after the R800/1800/2400. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometsoft Posted September 2, 2007 Share #20 Posted September 2, 2007 I've read or heard somewhere that if you're considering the Epson 2400 you might as well get the Epson 3800. When calculating ink costs and what the printer comes with the prices are pretty close. I haven't checked out the numbers myself, I think it might have been on that Luminous Landscape "Camera to Print" video. The 3800 has an excellent reputation. I don't own either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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