A list of all BLACK PAINT M cameras - analog and digital

[mmx_2]

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19 hours ago, derleicaman said:

The M8.2 was also the first regular production Leica with the black dot.

I specified the black dot on the LHSA Black Paint M6 TTL. When HP Coen, then CEO of Leica was looking at my prototype camera at PMA, he said, “Bill, there is something wrong with this camera!” I asked him what he was referring to. He said the dot was not red. I replied that was intentional. Glad he didn’t insist we make it red! 🙂

And so the black dot was born.

As I have understood it, Leica Camera Ag had to stop using the black dot because of copyright infringement to Leica Microsystems GmbH, and this should be the reason why black dot is not available “from factory” anymore. 
 

My M8 Panda came with black dot, but I have also seen with red dot.

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[willeica]

1 hour ago, mmx_2 said:

As I have understood it, Leica Camera Ag had to stop using the black dot because of copyright infringement to Leica Microsystems GmbH, and this should be the reason why black dot is not available “from factory” anymore. 
 

My M8 Panda came with black dot, but I have also seen with red dot.

Green dots for the Irish? The fixation with dots and their colours has always amused me. Most of my Leicas are from prior to the ‘red dot’ era, but I don’t even notice if a camera has a red dot on it when I pick it up. A lot of the discussion here about dots and their colour would confirm what a lot of photographers think about Leicas being ‘just male jewellery’. I don’t believe that myself, of course. I would not have any Leicas if I did.

Willuam

[pgk]

Back in the 1970s when I first started in photography, most black cameras (SLRs) cost more for some reason (Rank applying a premium to Nikons?). So they were seen as more desirable especially as many professionals appeared to use them (though I have no actual hard evidence that this was true). Many wore and so they acquired a 'patina' suggestive of usage (again this was probably not always true and many have survived in good clean condition to this day. So I suppose that the desire to own black paint cameras (SLRs or RFs) is not quite as simple as it seems. To my eye they look preferable, but that's a very personal thing and many prefer chrome cameras. And they look smaller despite being identical in size.

A list of BP Leicas will no doubt be of interest to many but is unlikely to be absolutely accurate as ever with Leica serial number lists!

[derleicaman]

4 hours ago, mmx_2 said:

As I have understood it, Leica Camera Ag had to stop using the black dot because of copyright infringement to Leica Microsystems GmbH, and this should be the reason why black dot is not available “from factory” anymore. 
 

My M8 Panda came with black dot, but I have also seen with red dot.

You are 100% correct about why Leica had to stop using the black dots. This was long after the LHSA Black Paint camera.

[Al Brown]

6 hours ago, willeica said:

a lot of photographers think about Leicas being ‘just male jewellery’

Yes, a lot of them do, and this is what keeps the sales up.
However, I am utterly happy if my camera does the job for me in daily professional use AND looks good at the same time. Love the red dot with my black paint.

[tranquilo67]

Have we already reach the point where we can discuss about black IIIa and IIIb or not yet? 🙂

Best wishes,

Augusto

[Al Brown]

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Another find, Leica M6 0.85 TTL black paint ØRESUNDSBRON Edition (10492) from 2000. It commemorated the inauguration of the Øresund Bridge. Production run was 150 units, 50 sold as body only, 25 with a 35mm Summicron and  75 were with 50mm lens. The special edition was produced for the Nordisk Foto Import A/S, distributor of Leica in Denmark.

[Pyrogallol]

18 minutes ago, tranquilo67 said:

Have we already reach the point where we can discuss about black IIIa and IIIb or not yet? 🙂

Best wishes,

Augusto

Yes please.

[Al Brown]

This is a thread about black paint M cameras, gentlemen. I would gladly read your posts in a new LTM black paint thread.

 

[willeica]

2 hours ago, tranquilo67 said:

Have we already reach the point where we can discuss about black IIIa and IIIb or not yet? 🙂

Best wishes,

Augusto

I tried to raise it earlier Augusto, but it seems that a lot of people here believe that Leicas started in 1953. Before that there seems to a great void for many. I do hope, however, that I never see an LTM with a red dot on it. 

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

This is a thread about black paint M cameras, gentlemen. I would gladly read your posts in a new LTM black paint thread.

 

There is a great tradition here of going off or expanding the topic. It would not be the Leica Forum without a bit of 'off piste' discussion. 

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Yes, a lot of them do, and this is what keeps the sales up.
However, I am utterly happy if my camera does the job for me in daily professional use AND looks good at the same time. Love the red dot with my black paint.

I am glad that this keeps you happy.

 

William

Edited August 3, 2021 by willeica

[Jeff S]

On 8/2/2021 at 7:43 AM, derleicaman said:

The M8.2 was also the first regular production Leica with the black dot.

I specified the black dot on the LHSA Black Paint M6 TTL. When HP Coen, then CEO of Leica was looking at my prototype camera at PMA, he said, “Bill, there is something wrong with this camera!” I asked him what he was referring to. He said the dot was not red. I replied that was intentional. Glad he didn’t insist we make it red! 🙂

And so the black dot was born.

Only the black paint M8.2, of course....the silver version maintained the red dot.

Jeff

[IkarusJohn]

On 7/31/2021 at 7:57 PM, Al Brown said:

Is there a list of all M models that came in black paint to be posted here? Just a simple list, like M3, M2, M4... to M7 and all the way to the latest M10-R? All special editions, both analog and digital included? Preferably with the year of issue for each M BP model. Only original Leica black paint. Thanks.
 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

As a matter of interest, why only original Leica black paint.  Is there another sort of Leica black paint, and if Leica applied it, what's the problem?  More generally, what is the purpose of identifying all Leica cameras released with black paint?

As Leica offers 'Redesign", with a black paint option, I'm not really sure I understand the question - any Leica M can be black paint, applied by Leica.  I can't imagine there's a secondhand price difference (for what that's worth).  Is my "original" silver chrome M9 Monochrome worth more or less, as it was originally only released in black chrome?

I'm not sure where this is going.  Actually, I'm not even sure what my question is ...

[derleicaman]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

As a matter of interest, why only original Leica black paint.  Is there another sort of Leica black paint, and if Leica applied it, what's the problem?  More generally, what is the purpose of identifying all Leica cameras released with black paint?

As Leica offers 'Redesign", with a black paint option, I'm not really sure I understand the question - any Leica M can be black paint, applied by Leica.  I can't imagine there's a secondhand price difference (for what that's worth).  Is my "original" silver chrome M9 Monochrome worth more or less, as it was originally only released in black chrome?

I'm not sure where this is going.  Actually, I'm not even sure what my question is ...

Well, actually the original M (MP, M3, M2 and M4) black paint cameras carry a huge premium over their silver chrome versions. My concept with the original LHSA Black Paint M6 TTL was to bring back the black paint M. Leica initially had no interest in doing this. Once they saw how good our prototypes looked, they did the Millenium and then numerous other black paint special editions. We did the LHSA MP3 in black paint as well.

Eventually they did the M8.2 and then the M9 and M240 in black paint. No, there really is no premium for the digital black paint cameras. The M10-R BP May change that.

Your silver chrome MM is fairly rare and should carry some premium over the black chrome version. I have a silver chrome one also, with the Leica script on top.

[Matlock]

15 hours ago, tranquilo67 said:

Have we already reach the point where we can discuss about black IIIa and IIIb or not yet? 🙂

Best wishes,

Augusto

And what about the grey paint IIIc.

[willeica]

3 hours ago, Matlock said:

And what about the grey paint IIIc.

Allegedly done because they ran out of material for chrome. I have two grey IIIcs , one a K, but they are really blue grey rather than actual grey. Some assume that all grey cameras went to the military. I was told by the Leica Archives that one of mine went to the Luftwaffe, but, having consulted the usual lists and discussed it with Jim Lager, I concluded that it was not a military camera. Chrome IIIcKs are rare and often fetch a premium. More ‘norms’ broken.

William 

[Matlock]

Just now, willeica said:

Allegedly done because they ran out of material for chrome. I have two grey IIIcs , one a K, but they are really blue grey rather than actual grey. Some assume that all grey cameras went to the military. I was told by the Leica Archives that one of mine went to the Luftwaffe, but, having consulted the usual lists and discussed it with Jim Lager, I concluded that it was not a military camera. Chrome IIIcKs are rare and often fetch a premium. More ‘norms’ broken.

William 

Fully agree William. I have a grey IIIc K and find it a rather attractive finish. As a side note, for some reason I like black paint screw mount Leica's but find the M black paint models unattractive, just a personal preference. 

[Al Brown]

Just found out there was a M6 in GREEN LACQUER, green paint. On request of Schmidt Group there were 300 units of M6 TTL 0.85 (10478) in 2000 made with green safari paint.

[Al Brown]

Another special black paint edition, Leica M6 TTL BLACK PAINT 0.85 "ICS" (The Import Camera Society) 2000 Millenium, series of 200 units.

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Hallo,

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[pippy]

On 8/3/2021 at 9:58 AM, willeica said:

...A lot of the discussion here about dots and their colour would confirm what a lot of photographers think about Leicas being ‘just male jewellery’. I don’t believe that myself, of course. I would not have any Leicas if I did...

Discussing the colour of dots, William?

How very different is that, to onlookers, from discussing Mushroom / Dimple / Black-paint-with-nickel / Black-paint-with-chrome / Bright-chrome / Satin-chrome / 'War-Time-Grey' / Vulcanite / Shark-skin / Black-blind / Red-blind / Black-scale / Red-scale / 'Stepper' / 'Non-Stepper' / Regular or 'K'? / Nr. or No. / DRP or DBP?........the list is never-ending. Red-dot or Black dot? Just part of 'The Story So Far'...

We are a funny lot and no mistake!

Philip.

Edited October 17, 2021 by pippy

[250swb]

For black paint M cameras there is also the MP-6 made for the Japanese market, basically a pre-production MP with vulcanite. The serial number list gives a set of 1000 numbers allocated to it, and you may think this means 1000 were made. This can't be true because my regular MP's serial number comes from right in the middle of that sequence of 1000 so it's safe to assume far less than 1000 were made. So be sceptical when looking at batches of serial numbers and thinking all were used up for the camera they were allotted to.