SL2 unable to use AF for Live Streaming Setup?

[omega1848]

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Hi folks,
I am struggling with the SL2 at the following scenario:
I would like to use the SL2 for a Live Streaming session, which will be approx. 1h - 2h long.
    ⁃    Recording will be done via HDMI out from the SL2 (i love the full size HDMI connector) directly to the HDMI-USB Capture card on the Mac.
    ⁃    To power the SL2 during that time, the SL2 is connected to an USB-C power adapter (in that case an Apple MacBook Air 11 USB Power Supply which provides enough power to the SL2 without any problems. I connected the power adapter to the SL2 with a full charged original Leica battery inside the SL2 and the SL2 runs without any problems for at least 2h (then I stoped the test) and the battery was staying at 100%)
    ⁃    SL2 AF settings tested are iAF, AFc and Body/ Face Detect (to ensure that a „talking head“ stays in focus)
    ⁃    Energy settings are „Automatic Power off“ to „off“ (but it is weird IMO that the „screen/ display timeout“ can only be set to 30sec, 1min or 5min, but not to „always on“ - and I believe this is the reason which is causing the following issue).

Now, as long as the back display stays on, the SL2 manages to continuously autofocus and detects person/ face without „major“ issues and the clear HDMI signal is transported to the capture cards.
But after the display time out time (1sec/1min/5min) the back display turns off (as expected via the settings), the clear HDMI signal still being carried to the capture card - BUT AF is not working anymore! The SL2 AF position is freezed in the last focus position and whatever you do in front of the camera: NOTHING.
The AF is „out“ and the camera acts as in „standby“ mode - but still perfectly delivers the HDMI out.
Once you tap on the back of the screen and „actives“ it again, the AF is back to live and starts tracking again.

So now my question: What I am doing wrong here?
I believed that Red Dot Forum is using SL2 in their Live YouTube Broadcast and it looked to me that AF is working for them? 
Anyone has some magic trick in your sleeves, any settings I am missing on the video side to have AF continuously working?

Of course I am aware that with full manual focus the whole issue would not exist, but this is not „doable“ in my scenario, since the „talking head“ will move a couple of times during that session and the camera SL2 is not in „reach“ to manually correct/ adjust the focus - hence I definitely need and want to use AF at some sort.
In „normal“ Videomode i also do like the smooth AF shifting of the Leica SL-Series and it is not so bad IMHO.
And to be clear, if AF in general is available - why should I not be able to use it? Of course I get the point that the technical AF implementation could not be on pair with Sony/ Canon (Eye-Detect AF), but it should be at least „kind of good enough“ and work in „general“.

Thanks so much in advance!
Oliver

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by omega1848

[meerec]

I can confirm this behaviour, it works for me like this too. 

[omega1848]

Thanks! So in other words it looks like that you have to record at the same time in order to have the AF working, in other words record to a storage card.

Which would, unfortunately, lead you to the problem of the 30min max recording time (not of storage, but of camera definition, limitation due to this damn ‚video camera tax‘ topic…) and hence I would not be able to host a live stream for more than 30 min - except someone is manually running to the camera and hit rcord again - sad!

 

[LocalHero1953]

I have done quite a few video tests with the SL and SL2S, but I have not tried USB-powered video, only battery. I can get around 50mins video with the SL2S (no 30min limit in the - S), recording to 2x128gb cards. 

When I get home I'll see if I have any other data of relevance, and see if the SL2-S behaves the same as the SL2. I no longer have an external recorder though - I've sold my BM Video Assist and waiting for the right need to get an Átomos. 

[omega1848]

That would be great! Yes, indeed the SL2-S has no "built in Software" recoding limit and as such would be able to record as long as the battery and/ or storage card (internal or external) would allow. As such, the AF problem does (IMHO) not exist, since you just simply "record" and stream the AV signal via HDMI out.

Looks like the SL2 is "per se" the limiting factor with the "recording limit" and/ or the "sleep time".

Curios if the SL2-S has the same behaviour, so if you do not record, just stream the AV signal out via HDMI if the SL2-S back display falls asleep as well - and if the autofocus stops working (in other words enters "energy saving" like the display)?

Which to be clear - on the other hand makes sense from an implementaion point of view, if you want to save battery life - etc., that the camera falls in some sort of energy saving mode. BUT if you are supporting the camera with external power, the firmware/ camera should detect that and/ or at least you should have the option to disable "turn off display" after xx minutes...

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by omega1848

[meerec]

I have a similar issue as you with AF however I perceive it slightly differently. I do not record, I just stream. And in my case once the focus is properly established at the beginning, it keeps focussing on my face beyond the 5min, even if the back LCD goes to sleep. What it will not do in this situation, if I step outside of the frame and come back, it will have lost the proper focus and it will not be accurately in-focus. What I do then, just lightly press the shutter button to wake up the camera and it re-focuses then again. 

[omega1848]

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Thanks! Interesting,  yes indeed I for sure can confirm that the focus will not "come back" once I turn my head or move out of the way, so the cameras AF is basically not waking up again or reacting on image changes. And yes, once  ounhalf press the shutter, i.e. waking up the camera so to speak, focus catchs up again. But unfortunately in my scenario the camera is out of reach to touch…and it would be a strange behaviour of me doing so in the middle of the live stream 😀.

I wasn't aware that the focus keeps focusing as long as you are "with the face within the frame", I need to check that. But of course that only solves ‚half of the problem‘.

Edited July 12, 2021 by omega1848

[LocalHero1953]

Interim reply.....

My recollection of battery capacity was wrong: I have had around 100 minutes recording on the SL2-S: full frame, HD, 60fps, ALL-I, requiring 146Gb storage.

And 87 minutes at 4k: APS-C, 60fps Long-GOP, requiring 125Gb.

 

Edit: more....

• When connected to USB power, and video is recording to the SD card, the display does not auto-shutoff after 30secs (or 1 or 5 mins), and it continues to autofocus.
• Since I can get around 100 minutes recording on a battery, with around 150Gb storage, with USB power I should be able to get around 160 mins recorded to the 2x128Gb SD cards. Would this be enough for your needs, depending on your recording format?
• As I said, I can't check HDMI streaming with external recording at the moment, but when the g/children have gone to bed tonight (they are too energetic to do it now) I will connect to the TV and see how AF behaves.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by LocalHero1953

[omega1848]

Thanks so much!!

Would be great if you can double check, but of course without getting the kids upset! ;-)

 

[LocalHero1953]

(They've gone for a nap).

Sorry, but with the SL2-S I confirm your finding: there is no 'Off' option for the Auto Display Off timer and, when streaming to HDMI, the moment the display goes off then AFc stops working.

I agree this is a nuisance. It should either allow you to disable Auto Display Off or it should leave AF functioning when the display goes off.    

[beewee]

You might want to email the guys at Leica Store Miami. They’ve been shooting their Red Dot Forum youtube videos for a while now and each one lasts about 2 hrs. They can probably give you an idea of how they did this.

Edited July 12, 2021 by beewee

[omega1848]

Thanks so much to all of your help and support and contribution to this one! Highly appreciated! 

From what I heard/ saw, is that Red Dor Forum/ Leica Store Miami is using MF settings for the video streams (in live scenarios) and for the close up AF with 3rd "video operator", hence no "passive/ active" topic. Fo rcurated content I am very confident that SSD or SD Storage is being used to record, hence to "de-activation" (since David showed in some of the episodes his SSD storage solutions he is using, I believe it was Ninja/ Atomos or similar). 

But, great news, I just recently spoke to German Leica sub and they understand the topic, for both SL/ SL2 and are thinking about to fix this within the next upcoming firmware update. If that is true, it would be great! Otherwise I am happing to file this as a feature request!

[LocalHero1953]

39 minutes ago, omega1848 said:

Thanks so much to all of your help and support and contribution to this one! Highly appreciated! 

From what I heard/ saw, is that Red Dor Forum/ Leica Store Miami is using MF settings for the video streams (in live scenarios) and for the close up AF with 3rd "video operator", hence no "passive/ active" topic. Fo rcurated content I am very confident that SSD or SD Storage is being used to record, hence to "de-activation" (since David showed in some of the episodes his SSD storage solutions he is using, I believe it was Ninja/ Atomos or similar). 

But, great news, I just recently spoke to German Leica sub and they understand the topic, for both SL/ SL2 and are thinking about to fix this within the next upcoming firmware update. If that is true, it would be great! Otherwise I am happing to file this as a feature request!

That would be great news. That might mean the SL2 f/w update, which is due any time now. I hope they also do an update for the SL2-S at the same time.

[omega1848]

I heard mixed feedback if this has been adressedä and solved with the recent 3.0 firmware for the Leica SL2.

Would you guys mind and check if the problem is still present?

Thanks so much in advance!

[isleofgough]

I use a elgato cam link and firmware 3 and have no problem streaming with autofocus for an hour on my Mac Pro.

[WSebastian]

I'm still seeing this on my firmware 2.1 SL2-S.

[Photoworks]

I have done a few of this streaming longer then 60min on SL2

with firmware 3.0 you don't have record limit anymore, just the card. 

If you hit record to SD card, the camera displays stays on and AF face detect is active the hole time the recording is going. You can still have an external Monitor / Recorder and USB to computer. it works great. 

There is a 1/4 to 1/2 sec delay to the zoom app on the computer this way. Must be the USB HDMI converter

 

I run into an issue of temperature warning and stoped recording at 50min a few times.

[omega1848]

Yes, but so far this is only vaild if you hit record, if you use the camera as a streaming/ capturing device only (HDMI out) the camera monitor falls asleep after the definied time and with that the AF as well. Unfortunately there is no way to tell the LCD monitor to stay on for ‚always‘ and hence the AF.

if you press record, the camera keeps awake and does not goes in ‚energy savings‘…that is the problem

Unfortunately external power does not solve the issue…