Zooms for birding

[Ktsa5239]

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I have alittle dilemma that would like everyone’s input on. 
My SL2 is my birding camera, I do almost everything else on my M. So I’ve picked up the lumix 70-200 f4 with a 1.4x converter and the sigma 100-400.

I feel like I’m still cropping a lot due to the reach, and I’m thinking if I should pick up a telecoverter for the sigma. The only problem is, I find that the IQ of the sigma 100-400 is not as good as the Panasonic even without the teleconverter so would it make it worse after the converter is added? 

I’ve tried the Leica 90-280 and loved the results, however it is the shortest one of the three and the weight is unbearable because I don’t usually use a tripod or monopod.  

So what should I do…..

1) get the lumix 70-200 f2.8 and use the teleconverter for an extra stop of light?

2) get the Leica 90-280 and use a monopod and hope Leica comes out with a teleconverter 

3) just use what I have and maybe run it through denoise AI and gigapixel AI?

Appreciate any comments or ideas! Thanks

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[Michael Markey]

I`ve always been a birder rather than a bird photographer but I do sometimes take a few shots .

I have an SL2S  and the Panasonic 70/200/4 as well.

Thing is ,depending where you live in the world and the habitat in which you photograph , you really need to be in the 400 to 600 focal length range if you want to stand a chance at capturing a decent shot in the wild.

That`s certainly true for the UK ,because its largely urban and the birds are less confiding .

In gardens / parks  and reserves you maybe can get away with 300 .

There is nothing in the L mount alliance which I`ve seen which will give you that reach and still attain the quality of Canon and Nikon glass IMO .

Adapted lenses seem to provide a partial solution although you may take a hit on the AF speed depending on the light .

I used a Canon 400 DO although I`d sold it before I bought my SL2S so have no direct experience of it on that body but there are plenty of good examples on here .

For myself having struggled with this problem over the years I`d just by a Sony body (all have better AF than you`ll find in other makes) and their 200 - 600 zoom.

Both the bodies and the lens are bargains compared to the other alternatives .

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Michael Markey

[michali]

2 hours ago, Ktsa5239 said:

I have alittle dilemma that would like everyone’s input on. 
My SL2 is my birding camera, I do almost everything else on my M. So I’ve picked up the lumix 70-200 f4 with a 1.4x converter and the sigma 100-400.

I feel like I’m still cropping a lot due to the reach, and I’m thinking if I should pick up a telecoverter for the sigma. The only problem is, I find that the IQ of the sigma 100-400 is not as good as the Panasonic even without the teleconverter so would it make it worse after the converter is added? 

I’ve tried the Leica 90-280 and loved the results, however it is the shortest one of the three and the weight is unbearable because I don’t usually use a tripod or monopod.  

So what should I do…..

1) get the lumix 70-200 f2.8 and use the teleconverter for an extra stop of light?

2) get the Leica 90-280 and use a monopod and hope Leica comes out with a teleconverter 

3) just use what I have and maybe run it through denoise AI and gigapixel AI?

Appreciate any comments or ideas! Thanks

The never-ending dilemma.....

I have the Leica 90-280mm L it's an excellent lens but it's too short for birding. I don't believe that Leica will come out with a tele-converter for 90-280mm, which is disappointing. Secondly the Lumix 70-200 & 1.4x converter will take you up to 280mm same as the Leica 90-280mm  so no real gain.

I also have  Sigma 100-400mm it's good up to a subject distance of 15m to 20m max. & there's no loss of IQ with the 1.4x TC.

Given all of the above, I purchased the Canon EF 400mm f/4 DO IS II USM Lens and use it on the SL2 with the Sigma EF to L mount MC-21 adapter mainly for birding. There's no CAF only SAF, it's not lightning fast but acceptable, the lens' IS works well on the SL2.

It's an exceptional lens & probably the best tele lens I've ever used. I also use the Canon lll 1.4x TC with it & there's no loss of quality at all.  The Canon is several hundred $ cheaper than the 90-280mm, there are used copies also available. @helgedalso uses this lens & has the same experience as I do.

You can have look on the SL2 image thread, I've posted many bird shots taken with the SL2 & Canon combination.

Here's a recent example: Southern Fiscal Shrike SL2 & Canon 400mm DO ll USM & Canon 1.4x TC

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by michali

[michali]

SL2 & Canon 400mm DO USMll  hand held -male Bateleur Eagle (Terathopius ecaudatus) directly overhead, taken from an open vehicle @ Mwiba s. Serengeti.

(click on the image for better res.)

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[Mpi]

I think you would need to adopt something. The Leica 90-280 is an excellent lens, but sadly not long enough for most birds. I am not aware of any great L mount tele that are much longer though.

One option (and the one I decided to go with) would be to look at R lenses. There's a APO extender 2.0 which you can use with all lenses. I the a 180mm f/2 prime (so I get 360mm f/4). I also ordered the 400mm f/2.8 -- with the extender it will get me 800mm f/5.6. This will be a very heavy setup though...

The main drawback of R lenses is that it is manual focus only. That is probably a dealbreaker for many people -- I see it as a challenge (but I might regret this decision long-term...).

[BernardC]

I'm not a bird-in-flight photographer, but it seems like the best way to meet birding requirements (long reach, fast response, fast AF, no viewfinder lag, hand-holdable) is to get a dedicated birding setup. That means the latest Canon or Nikon APS-C SLR and one of their many fine long zooms.

Full-frame isn't ideal, because it doubles the weight of your lens (for the same effective reach).

Mirrorless also isn't ideal, because of viewfinder lag and slower AF.

A side advantage is that this type of combination can be had for less money than adding a long zoom to your L-Mount kit. It doesn't have to be, of course (Canon's 200-400/4.0L 1.4x is well over $10k), but it can be.

[Ktsa5239]

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Thank you for everyone’s input so far. I think the biggest challenge is that I’ve sunk the funds into a SL2 so I can’t really jump systems now. I’ve tried looking for R lenses but they are hard to find here in Australia and not being able to get them new in a shop makes it extra difficult. I have tried the sigma adapter and borrowed my friends canon 400 f4 but that makes the setup very heavy and bulky. 

I might just stick to the sigma 100-400 until the L alliance comes out with something better. Fingers crossed 

 

[meerec]

Has anyone had a chance to try the Canon EF 800 f/5.6 super telephoto on the SL2?

[jaapv]

I think one will get better results by using a high MP camera with a lighter and smaller lens and crop, or by using a smaller-sensored camera with lighter lenses. These big cannons are a bit of a thing of the past. Many wildlife photographers are scaling down on size and weight.  

I see it time and time again - the best images come from photographers that invest in wildlife ( and birds are wildlife  ) knowledge and bush craft instead of gear that is overly demanding of photographic technique.

[Michael Markey]

The other dependency is how you approach bird photography .

The large lenses are really for static hide (blind) work .

Waking around stuff needs something lighter like the new Canon 800 or 600 lenses mentioned by Meerec

[jaapv]

Yes, but even with O.I.S./I.B.I.S wielding a 800 or 600  handheld is not for the fainthearted or weaklings. Those rigs are well in the 6-7 kgs, even with lighter modern designs. Actually a combo I found very effective for birding was the Vario-Elmar 100-400 on MFT (GX8). Maybe the IQ of the file was a smidgen below the CL or FF, but the lens quality was impeccable and I was able to have capture success rates well over 85%. Five effective stops of stabilization did help.

 

[Michael Markey]

The new Canon 600 and 800 lenses are very light compared to the more traditional designs at that focal length.

They each weigh in at 1260 g or 2.78 pounds 

[jaapv]

That is not bad at all A 600 O.I.S .on the CL might be quite impressive, provided AF works.

[Ktsa5239]

Are you talking about the new RF canon lenses? But there’s no adapter to go from Rf to L mount right ?

[jaapv]

No idea - it is not a road I would take.

[Michael Markey]

5 hours ago, Ktsa5239 said:

Are you talking about the new RF canon lenses? But there’s no adapter to go from Rf to L mount right ?

I was ... didn`t know that there was no adapter as yet.

I guess that might change if there was a demand and that it could be technically done .

Their fixed f11 aperture may make AF an easier proposition if they were adapted ?

[BernardC]

On 7/5/2021 at 12:34 AM, Ktsa5239 said:

So what should I do…..

1) get the lumix 70-200 f2.8 and use the teleconverter for an extra stop of light?

2) get the Leica 90-280 and use a monopod and hope Leica comes out with a teleconverter 

3) just use what I have and maybe run it through denoise AI and gigapixel AI?

Today's photo rumour is that Sigma will soon announce a "150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG DN OS".

For those unfamiliar with Sigma naming conventions, DG means full-frame, DN means mirrorless (L-Mount and Sony E mount), and OS means stabilized.

You might want to ask your local photo store to pre-order one for you.

[Ktsa5239]

The 150-600 would be fantastic if it’s coming to L mount. I’ve emailed my local store but they said they haven’t heard anything from sigma yet. So finger crossed it’s coming soon!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount