CL or TL2: which do you recommend?

[kengai]

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Looking for a quality camera, not too bulky and with quality lenses, to use as a second body for travel photography to pair with the M10, which one do you recommend?

[LocalHero1953]

Why do you want a second body? What's wrong with one? 
These are serious questions - your answers may suggest whether a CL, TL2, another M, or nothing at all would be most worth considering.

[Shawn30]

It’s a kind of personal preference between the two. The CL has a really nice EVF and the TL2 is an LCD but there’s an optional evf attachment. They have the same sensor and use the same native lens’s. The TL2 does have 32 gig of on board storage. You can use the M and R mount lens’s with either but I’m not sure how easy it is to focus them on the TL2 without the evf.

[nicci78]

Get the CL. 
- Build in EVF is awesome.  
- CL user interface is the same as M10. Whereas TL2 ones is totally different. 
- TL2 did not received any firmware update since 2018. Hence some small issues with L-mount alliance lenses. 
- CL accept first party handgrip and thumb rest. No such thing with slippery TL2. 
- you can use a flash and an EVF at the same time with CL. No need to choose either ones. 
 

Of course you can share the Visoflex between TL2 and M10. But it is inferior to CL OLED EVF. 
 

[nicci78]

What’s more ? 
TL line up development team (sub contractor) no longer exist since 2018. No more TL camera in the future. 

CL line up development team (in house) is working actively to release CL2 in 2021. 

Your choice. Either camera is fine. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by nicci78

[Volbeat]

If you want/ need the viewfinder then it has to be CL. The TL2 is available at lower prices. And the T (TL) is still a fantastic camera for £500 used! Is 16MPx really such a compromise?

[Dopaco]

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vor 18 Stunden schrieb kengai:

Looking for a quality camera, not too bulky and with quality lenses, to use as a second body for travel photography to pair with the M10, which one do you recommend?

Having an M10, I would go for the iPhone 12 Prom, it makes spectacular photos and videos and weighs less than the CL and TL2.

You can also take photos in RAW format that will be saved in 12-bit DNG format.

Both the CL and the TL2 are two good cameras and both are a mystery as to whether Leica will come up with releasing substitutes on APS-C.

New generation mobiles have eaten compact cameras and are about to do so with the APS-C format.

I highly doubt that Leica would rule out replacing TL2 for several reasons:
* Has a new and unique design (looks like Apple stuff).
* The interface is new generation similar to that of the iPhone 12 pro.
* I have read that Leica has many aluminum bases in stock ready to fill inside.

For all the above, I think that if there was a TL3 or CL2, it would be based on launching them as FF (if they are able to do it in such small bodies). A modification to the TL2 would be to fill in the hollow aluminum bases that they have in Stock.

I have TL2 and a few days ago I changed my iPhone 6 for iPhone 12 Pro, which, I am in the testing and learning phase and for the short time that I have been I have to say that it is wonderful and takes photos and videos with great quality.

If I had the M10 and it worked fine, I'd go for the iPhone 12 Pro right now and then see what Leica has released.

 

Portrait photo in low light taken with iPhone 12 pro (xataka).

Observe how the background blurs.
 

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Edited May 30, 2021 by Dopaco

[Le Chef]

I don’t think Leica can realistically change the CL/TL cameras to full frame. All TL lenses would have to be repurposed in terms of focal length. Whether you’ve invested ‘00’s or ‘000’s in dedicated TL lenses this move would likely piss you off immensely.

Second regardless of full frame sensor Leica might use, they would have essentially cannibalized the SL2 and SL2-S. So Leica would have to acknowledge that either the CL/TL range or the SL/SL2 had been a colossal strategic business mistake. From a business sense that would give you a big fat “F” for your term grade.

Third, the TL is essentially dead and has been for a couple of years. If Leica were serious about it’s role in the portfolio they would have at least upgraded the firmware. It maybe the CL line is also dead and there’s no replacement coming.

Fourth a few unfinished TL “shells” means nothing. Leica would appear to batch produce as befits a small manufacturer, so unfinished shells if anything shows that model was a failure and the cost to complete was not worth the expense.

[jaapv]

4 hours ago, Dopaco said:

Having an M10, I would go for the iPhone 12 Prom, it makes spectacular photos and videos and weighs less than the CL and TL2.

You can also take photos in RAW format that will be saved in 12-bit DNG format.

Both the CL and the TL2 are two good cameras and both are a mystery as to whether Leica will come up with releasing substitutes on APS-C.

New generation mobiles have eaten compact cameras and are about to do so with the APS-C format.

I highly doubt that Leica would rule out replacing TL2 for several reasons:
* Has a new and unique design (looks like Apple stuff).
* The interface is new generation similar to that of the iPhone 12 pro.
* I have read that Leica has many aluminum bases in stock ready to fill inside.

For all the above, I think that if there was a TL3 or CL2, it would be based on launching them as FF (if they are able to do it in such small bodies). A modification to the TL2 would be to fill in the hollow aluminum bases that they have in Stock.

I have TL2 and a few days ago I changed my iPhone 6 for iPhone 12 Pro, which, I am in the testing and learning phase and for the short time that I have been I have to say that it is wonderful and takes photos and videos with great quality.

If I had the M10 and it worked fine, I'd go for the iPhone 12 Pro right now and then see what Leica has released.

 

Portrait photo in low light taken with iPhone 12 pro (xataka).

Observe how the background blurs.
 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Yes. I do observe.  A bit synthetic if you ask me, especially the transition above the shoulders. 

[Dopaco]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Le Chef:

I don’t think Leica can realistically change the CL/TL cameras to full frame. All TL lenses would have to be repurposed in terms of focal length. Whether you’ve invested ‘00’s or ‘000’s in dedicated TL lenses this move would likely piss you off immensely.

Second regardless of full frame sensor Leica might use, they would have essentially cannibalized the SL2 and SL2-S. So Leica would have to acknowledge that either the CL/TL range or the SL/SL2 had been a colossal strategic business mistake. From a business sense that would give you a big fat “F” for your term grade.

Third, the TL is essentially dead and has been for a couple of years. If Leica were serious about it’s role in the portfolio they would have at least upgraded the firmware. It maybe the CL line is also dead and there’s no replacement coming.

Fourth a few unfinished TL “shells” means nothing. Leica would appear to batch produce as befits a small manufacturer, so unfinished shells if anything shows that model was a failure and the cost to complete was not worth the expense.

Let time pass in the meantime, enjoy what we have or can buy. Now what is in Leica is TL2 and CL both are excellent and can give a lot of play, it is a matter of taste.

[Porchpockler]

I currently own both...I think folks in this thread have covered a lot of the relevant territory in terms of firmware upgrades etc.

 

In the hand, the TL2 can manage without a grip, I find the CL needs one.

In use, the CL is quicker to focus if you are using AF lenses, and there are some lenses that won't focus well at all on the TL2 (others are roughly equivalent...google the updates in firmware and you can see which are which).

For purely compact cameras, I find the TL2 can feel a bit smaller.  When I stick an adapted 35mm f2.5 color skopar on the TL2, it is nearly pocketable (I wouldn't put it in my pocket regardless).

Oddly, in my sampling of the two, colors jpegs are much more usable in my TL2 than CL (b&w are roughly the same, maybe an edge again to the TL2...could be a metering thing).  

The built in 32gb memory is nice to have on the TL2.

All that said, I'm on the fence about selling the TL2 at the moment, since I really like shooting through a VF.  Bottom line, they both will make terrific photos.

[LeicaS2]

Had both TL and CL: have the CL still. If I were traveling it would be the M not the CL. Yes heavier, but more enjoyable. If I needed a backup, it would be a second M.

the CL is an excellent camera for its lighter weight and AF.  Thanks to AF I can hand it to someone else and they can use it. Wish it had stability because others do not know how to hold a camera steady. The initial TL is a terrific used camera. Buy it for a back up for $450. Trade up later to the CL if you like it. Get an 18mm and the TL fits in a jacket pocket.

I believe Leica will stay with the CL as an entry interchangeable lens Leica. APC is an excellent format for smaller AF lenses and the only reason for full frame is bragging rights or huge enlargements.

Of course I have in investment in M cameras because I enjoy them and there is no one who knows what they are - so there is no bragging. And yes I regularly print to 30x45.

Jack

[LocalHero1953]

On 5/29/2021 at 7:33 PM, kengai said:

Looking for a quality camera, not too bulky and with quality lenses, to use as a second body for travel photography to pair with the M10, which one do you recommend?

 

On 5/29/2021 at 8:52 PM, LocalHero1953 said:

Why do you want a second body? What's wrong with one? 
These are serious questions - your answers may suggest whether a CL, TL2, another M, or nothing at all would be most worth considering.

A response would be helpful (and courteous).

[kengai]

32 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

 

A response would be helpful (and courteous).

excuse me if I did not respond promptly, but problems with the pc prevented me. I thank you and everyone else for the answers, they help me to reflect and make the best decision. My first body is the M10, the second body would quickly allow me to have a few more possibilities with an TL zoom in addition.

[nicci78]

So get the CL with the trio of Vario-Elmar-TL : 11-23mm + 18-56mm + 55-135mm. 
 

The most useful one is 18-56mm. Awesome lens. Try it before dismissing it. 
The best among them is 11-23mm, optically speaking. But it is the least useful. 
55-135mm produce stunning portraits and landscapes. My second favourite. 
 

You can pass the 23mm and 18mm. 
If you need one of those. Please consider the more competent Q or Q2. 

[jaapv]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:33 PM, kengai said:

Looking for a quality camera, not too bulky and with quality lenses, to use as a second body for travel photography to pair with the M10, which one do you recommend?

The problem you will run into is that a CL (or TL) may well become your primary camera.

[Dopaco]

vor einer Stunde schrieb jaapv:

The problem you will run into is that a CL (or TL) may well become your primary camera.

Very successful advice and that usually becomes reality.

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Edited May 31, 2021 by Dopaco

[LocalHero1953]

2 hours ago, kengai said:

excuse me if I did not respond promptly, but problems with the pc prevented me. I thank you and everyone else for the answers, they help me to reflect and make the best decision. My first body is the M10, the second body would quickly allow me to have a few more possibilities with an TL zoom in addition.

It sounds like you want the zoom and AF option that the M doesn't have. The trouble is that, for travel, my aim is to travel light, which means not carrying two cameras! If you want M quality and AF and zoom, then I suggest you sell the M and buy a SL2 and 24-90 (or 24-70) lens. Despite the weight and bulk of the SL2, I bet it would still be lighter than two systems with their separate lenses. 😊

[FrozenInTime]

The worst feature of the TL2 is also it's best feature : the visoflex really spoils the beautiful lines of the camera, but it also provides an adjustable angled view that I often set between 45 and 90 degrees looking down into the viewfinder ; with wide-normal lenses this often provides a more natural or more interesting view.

On the TL2 manual focus with peaking on the LCD is night on impossible as the edge highlighting is too fine - and not adjustable like the CL.

The LCD based setting menu of the TL line was far quicker to use than the convoluted menu and button/wheel assignments on the CL when it launched, but the new unified CL/SL2 quick setting panel closes that gap significantly. Both the CL and TL2 however still seem a firmware update away from ideal - I suspect now neither will ever receive that final polish. 

The TL2 feels in every way the more expensive camera ; I hope the CL2 will feature the best of both but must echo the suspicion that the TL line development and production stopped long ago.

Edited May 31, 2021 by FrozenInTime

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[jaapv]

3 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

It sounds like you want the zoom and AF option that the M doesn't have. The trouble is that, for travel, my aim is to travel light, which means not carrying two cameras! If you want M quality and AF and zoom, then I suggest you sell the M and buy a SL2 and 24-90 (or 24-70) lens. Despite the weight and bulk of the SL2, I bet it would still be lighter than two systems with their separate lenses. 😊

Which must be qualified by the observation that the image quality of the CL/TL2 is very close to the 24 MP versions of SL and m10.