markowich Posted August 28, 2007 Share #1 Posted August 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) hi friends, just as a matter of interest, i would like to show you a file which i took last weekend in rio de janeiro with my m8 and the voigtlaender color heliar 75mm: L1002245.jpg photo - markowich photos at pbase.com as you can see, more or less the whole picture is a moiree pattern. just to clarify, i got more or less the same results with the summilux 50mm, so we are not seeing a lens effect, but really sensor induced moiree. apparently the sensor of the m8 is completely overwhelmed with the amount of detail in the scene. clearly, this is one of the rare cases where an anti-aliasing filter would be desirable, but the only real way of rendering this picture well is a sensor with a lot more resolution. well, horses for courses, as the british say. all the best, peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 28, 2007 Posted August 28, 2007 Hi markowich, Take a look here m8 moiree pattern. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shootist Posted August 28, 2007 Share #2 Posted August 28, 2007 Sorry but I don't see it. Other then the overcast and the plethora of dust spots I don't see any problems with this shot. Of course my work monitor is not the best. It is 9+ years old and has been running 9 hours a day 5-6 days a week since new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moikle Posted August 28, 2007 Share #3 Posted August 28, 2007 I can't see anything either on my nice new calibrated monitor. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share #4 Posted August 28, 2007 you see it best in those parts of the photograph where there are trees. just look at the rendering of the leaves. p ps: i should note that this is not an effect of jpg compression, the tiff file looks the same. Sorry but I don't see it. Other then the overcast and the plethora of dust spots I don't see any problems with this shot. Of course my work monitor is not the best. It is 9+ years old and has been running 9 hours a day 5-6 days a week since new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted August 28, 2007 Share #5 Posted August 28, 2007 Sorry again but I still don't see moire in any part of the image. I'd start looking at your monitor causing it. I'm using a CRT at work and I can see true moire in images that have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share #6 Posted August 28, 2007 Sorry again but I still don't see moire in any part of the image. I'd start looking at your monitor causing it. I'm using a CRT at work and I can see true moire in images that have it. how would you describe the rendering of the trees+leaves? just underresolved? peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fursan Posted August 28, 2007 Share #7 Posted August 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) No moire, but dust spots and imho the exposure/contrast/saturation could have been better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted August 28, 2007 Share #8 Posted August 28, 2007 The shot looks pretty unsharp...how much compression was used in converting from RAW? Otherwise it kind of looks like a fuzzy image that has been "sharpened". No moire that I can see. Moire tends to occur on images that are REALLY sharp...I get it ever so often with my Biogon 21, but never with my CV Ultron 28. Best wishes Dan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share #9 Posted August 28, 2007 The shot looks pretty unsharp...how much compression was used in converting from RAW? Otherwise it kind of looks like a fuzzy image that has been "sharpened". No moire that I can see. Moire tends to occur on images that are REALLY sharp...I get it ever so often with my Biogon 21, but never with my CV Ultron 28. Best wishes Dan hi dan, i just doublechecked the raw file, it is very sharp, actually sharper than the jpg which i posted. what i see in the rendering of the trees is clearly due to patterns which are below the sensor's nyquist frequency. best wishes, peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGeoJO Posted August 28, 2007 Share #10 Posted August 28, 2007 I don't see any moire either. On a clear, smog-free day, it would have been a great shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 28, 2007 Share #11 Posted August 28, 2007 I don't see it either. I think the combination of the heat haze and the pollution is providing you with an external anti-aliasing filter. Try changing your screen resolution to see if that changes anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 28, 2007 Share #12 Posted August 28, 2007 Me neither. maybe it is your monitor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speenth Posted August 28, 2007 Share #13 Posted August 28, 2007 hi friends,just as a matter of interest, i would like to show you a file which i took last weekend in rio de janeiro with my m8 and the voigtlaender color heliar 75mm: L1002245.jpg photo - markowich photos at pbase.com as you can see, more or less the whole picture is a moiree pattern. just to clarify, i got more or less the same results with the summilux 50mm, so we are not seeing a lens effect, but really sensor induced moiree. apparently the sensor of the m8 is completely overwhelmed with the amount of detail in the scene. clearly, this is one of the rare cases where an anti-aliasing filter would be desirable, but the only real way of rendering this picture well is a sensor with a lot more resolution. well, horses for courses, as the british say. all the best, peter I don't see any moire patterning. I don't have access to PhotoShop or Corel Paint right now, so I just fiddled with your image using 'Picnik' online. Although its palette is somewhat limited, Picnik has brought up your image somewhat and still no moire patterns. Perhaps the haze and lack of sharpness have combined to create the effect that concerns you. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/32126-m8-moiree-pattern/?do=findComment&comment=340491'>More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted August 28, 2007 Share #14 Posted August 28, 2007 Remember you may see moire' at 25 percent in PS and even at 50 percent . Make sure your at 100 percent to be sure it is really there. Monitors can play tricks sometimes, check at 100 percent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 28, 2007 Share #15 Posted August 28, 2007 Moiree or not (I'd say not, simply jpg conversion and fog effects, but do not pretend to be an expert) this is a terribly difficult picture for the impressive amount of details in foreground, but, as for esthetics, is just the ratio from overdetails in foreground and gradually "fogging" sea paysage in background that makes it a fine pic: I would have no doubt that, as Markowitch says, something like a 39 MP Hassy... as well as a 4x5" Linhof vs. a Leica M... in some situations you can't escape... Stephen manipulation is interesting, even if this brings to renounce at all to the green foliage rendering... is a possible choice to give another taste to the picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markowich Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share #16 Posted August 28, 2007 this is a terribly difficult picture for the impressive amount of details in foreground, exactly! I would have no doubt that, as Markowitch says, something like a 39 MP Hassy... as well as a 4x5" Linhof vs. a Leica M... in some situations you can't escape... this is really my point. sometimes megapixels do count. unfortunately my P45 is not with me just to make the comparism...unfair comparism though... the rendering of the trees and leaves reminds me exactly of what i somtimes got with the kodak 14n (also no AA filter), never seen this come out of the nikon D2x. please do not misunderstand me, i am not criticising the choice of the leica engineers not to put an AA filter, but sometimes it goes against you. all the best, peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted August 29, 2007 Share #17 Posted August 29, 2007 How do you get rid of this without spending all day in Photoshop? On the chair, the brightly colored one is obviously ACR-4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/32126-m8-moiree-pattern/?do=findComment&comment=340868'>More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 29, 2007 Share #18 Posted August 29, 2007 Same problem with this one: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/32126-m8-moiree-pattern/?do=findComment&comment=340937'>More sharing options...
gdeliz Posted August 29, 2007 Share #19 Posted August 29, 2007 Leica owners have nothing but praise for the fact that the M8 and DMR have no AA filter. Live by the sword.... George Deliz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted August 29, 2007 Share #20 Posted August 29, 2007 Don't get me wrong, I like the extra detail not having an AA filter brings. What I want or need is either in camera processing to remove it as stated in the specifications sheet for the camera or an alternative piece of post processing software. The C1 plug in for photoshop only works on the Windows version (I have the mac version) and I have not been able to find anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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