New M lens development?

[jaapv]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

19 hours ago, adan said:

And in some cases, different glass. Ideally that matches the specs of the originals (Abbé number, index of refraction, etc.) as closely as possible, but without environmentally-unfriendly additives such as lead or thorium.

.................

There are certain "boxes" around what Leica can do in terms of new M lenses.

I think Leica has an institutional reluctance to make an M lens that cannot be used on previous M cameras dating back to 1954. That means it cannot be totally dependent on electronic viewing. And can function at least as well as, say, a 1970 lens with a) the original 3/6 frameline sets (50/90/135, 35/50/90, 28/35/50/75/90/135), or traditional optical accesory finders, b ) a size that does not block the rangefinder windows, and c) will RF-focus reliably in the "normal" range of infinity to 0.7m.

That means - no 40 or 45mm or 60mm or 32mm lenses; no 135mm f/1.4; no 180-400 "M" zoom; probably nothing longer than 135 at all. Although it's a gray area - a 180mm f/5.6 with an external finder might make the cut - but would it actually be worth the cost and hassle (for either Leica or its customers) when one can simply crop a 40Mpixel 135mm image to a 22.5Mpixel "180" image?

A 15mm prime lens? Possible. Leica has had (or can recreate) a 15mm optical finder: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/File:Hologen.jpg

A 35mm Noctilux, almost certainly (with the caveat that it has to be "good enough" without being so big it blocks the RF/VF of, say, an M2).

Extended scale- or EVF-focusing? Sure. Leica has been doing that on occasion since the 1960s.

.................

I have heard that Peter Karbe is not all that thrilled with reinventing the wheel with the revival lenses. Sure, "the boss" wants it, and it pays the bills (maybe), and it keeps the computers and designers busy, and there is no doubt some intellectual entertainment in figuring out what Berek or Mandler were up to. But it is not exactly expanding the envelope of optical progress.

I am able to focus a 135 4.0 lens and RF coupled 2x converter reliably,, but the optical results make cropping preferable. 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Guest]

20 hours ago, adan said:

And in some cases, different glass. Ideally that matches the specs of the originals (Abbé number, index of refraction, etc.) as closely as possible, but without environmentally-unfriendly additives such as lead or thorium.

.................

There are certain "boxes" around what Leica can do in terms of new M lenses.

I think Leica has an institutional reluctance to make an M lens that cannot be used on previous M cameras dating back to 1954. That means it cannot be totally dependent on electronic viewing. And can function at least as well as, say, a 1970 lens with a) the original 3/6 frameline sets (50/90/135, 35/50/90, 28/35/50/75/90/135), or traditional optical accesory finders, b ) a size that does not block the rangefinder windows, and c) will RF-focus reliably in the "normal" range of infinity to 0.7m.

That means - no 40 or 45mm or 60mm or 32mm lenses; no 135mm f/1.4; no 180-400 "M" zoom; probably nothing longer than 135 at all. Although it's a gray area - a 180mm f/5.6 with an external finder might make the cut - but would it actually be worth the cost and hassle (for either Leica or its customers) when one can simply crop a 40Mpixel 135mm image to a 22.5Mpixel "180" image?

A 15mm prime lens? Possible. Leica has had (or can recreate) a 15mm optical finder: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/File:Hologen.jpg

A 35mm Noctilux, almost certainly (with the caveat that it has to be "good enough" without being so big it blocks the RF/VF of, say, an M2).

Extended scale- or EVF-focusing? Sure. Leica has been doing that on occasion since the 1960s.

.................

I have heard that Peter Karbe is not all that thrilled with reinventing the wheel with the revival lenses. Sure, "the boss" wants it, and it pays the bills (maybe), and it keeps the computers and designers busy, and there is no doubt some intellectual entertainment in figuring out what Berek or Mandler were up to. But it is not exactly expanding the envelope of optical progress.

On a personal level the reissue of old designs is of great interest and has allowed me to buy a brand new classic lens the 28mm summaron which i enjoy using very much and have been impressed by its rendering and performance.

Clearly leica have to produce cutting edge designs like the 35mm apo its just  of no interest to me,

There is no evidence that karbe does not like the classic remake concept as far as i know.

Most people will be looking for the next apo or something but i look forward to the much more interesting next classic/vintage remake.

To be honest your one of the posters that got me looking at older designs but as i used minolta lenses like the 58mm f1.4  mc rokkor for 25 years i should already have known what i like but at least i do now.

[tiffany.watt]

1 hour ago, steve 1959 said:

Most people will be looking for the next apo or something but i look forward to the much more interesting next classic/vintage remake.

 

Same for me. I am lucky to have inherited the summaron and origianl thambar. I do hope there are more vintage remakes coming.

[A. David Wunsch]

Why not bring out a tilt-shift lens or simply a shift lens?

[adan]

6 minutes ago, A. David Wunsch said:

Why not bring out a tilt-shift lens or simply a shift lens?

At the risk of repeating myself.....

On 5/25/2021 at 7:00 PM, adan said:

There are certain "boxes" around what Leica can do in terms of new M lenses.

I think Leica has an institutional reluctance to make an M lens that cannot be used on previous M cameras dating back to 1954. That means it cannot be totally dependent on electronic viewing.

The basic answer to your question is another question.

Why wouldn't Morgan bring out a car that seats seven and can tow a sailboat?

https://www.morgan-motor.com/

And the answer in both cases is that neither the Leica M nor the Morgan sports cars are intended to be do-everything "utility" products. They target a niche in their respective markets, and leave out anything that does not conform to the unique and special character of that niche.

If you want a British-marque vehicle that can seat seven, you don't wonder why Morgan doesn't build one - you just buy a Range Rover SUV.

If you want a German-made "utility camera" that can use T/S lenses, you buy a Leica S, SL or CL. That's why they exist.

[FrozenInTime]

45 minutes ago, A. David Wunsch said:

Why not bring out a tilt-shift lens or simply a shift lens?

A wide shift lens could work - even with film cameras, especially if there was an optical viewfinder that had reticule lines to indicate offset ; add dual axis level bubbles for perfection.

The built in fixed 8mm rise on the Linhof 612PCII (6x12 format 120 film, optical viewfinder 58 and 135 lenses ) worked really well ; though turning a M camera upside down to get fall would not be so convenient ( the Linhof had tripod threads on both bottom and top faces ).

In the M world, a 21mm fixed ~6mm offset lens with the ability to click the front in 90' steps through 360' would still be quite compact and mechanically simple.

[Lelmer]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

2 hours ago, adan said:

.....

Why wouldn't Morgan bring out a car that seats seven and can tow a sailboat?

.....

Sounds like an interesting concept...😄