Leicaflex Teleconverter Issue

[BrianAre]

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Hey all,

First time on the forum due to an issue I keep running into with the r mount system.

I recently bought a leicaflex SL1 body and I love it.

The lenses are somewhat out of my price range, but I managed to find a Tamron 28mm that gets the job done.

I would like a normal to medium telephoto lens as well, but, again, the prices! I thought I could spending $100-200 to just get a teleconverter for my 28mm. So far, I have bought two off of ebay and both do not fit at all. They won't click into place. The tamron lens fits on the teleconverter, but the converter won't fit the mount.

The recent one I bought said it would fit r-mount r3 and r4. The first one just said r-mount, which is leading me to be very confused about the lens naming system. I am not sure why these don't fit.

Should I just save up and buy a proper telephoto lens or are there any teleconverters that would fit this camera?

Open to any options.

Than you!

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Brian,

Welcome to the Forum,

Enjoy your new camera. The 3 original Leicaflex Cameras are some of the nicest & best handling film cameras that have been made by anyone.

Could you please clarify for me if your camera is the camera with the external meter cell on the pentaprism? Or is it the camera with a light bulb & lightning bolt in the front where the flash sockets are? Or is it the camera with an "X" & an "M" in the front where the flash sockets are?

You have actually asked 2 different questions. The first question is: Will lenses or teleconverters, etc. designed to be used on the later cameras: R3 thru R9 work on the 3 earlier Leicaflex cameras?

The quick answer is: Often no. Altho sometimes yes & other times with modification yes. Like a lot of things Leitz/Leica there are a lot of qualifications & exceptions in this answer. Welcome to the World of Leitz/ Leica. A lot of people like it even with its sometimes complexities.

I need to know which of the 3 original Leicaflex models you have before  can answer this part further.

Let me answer the second question: Teleconverter or second lens in a following Post.

I'll be back.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Again Brian,

A commonly available type of teleconverter is called a "2X" which means that it effectively doubles the focal length. This also means that it effectively cuts the angle of view in 1/2. Your 28 mm lens has an angle of coverage of 76 degrees measured diagonally across the photo corner to corner. 1/2 of the angle of 76 degrees is 38 degrees. A 60mm lens has an angle of coverage of 39 degrees. Both angles are pretty much the same. A 38 or a 39 degree angle of coverage is a little wider of an angle of coverage than is traditionally thought of as a medium telephoto angle of coverage.

A lens with a traditional medium telephoto angle of coverage which is available in older Leitz lenses for Leicaflexes is a 90mm F 2.8 Elmarit, Version I. This is a perfectly good lens by todays standards. Its angle of coverage is 27 degrees. A 90mm lens is a lens that gives a person the perspective & angular coverage that they sometimes want to photograph when they are looking at something but it is not quite right so they step back & adjust their position so it looks correct & then find that there is too much "other" in front of the subject, as well as on the sides & on the top. This is the type of "other" that a 90mm lens can remove in a number of situations while at the same time retaining the appropriate perspective.       

I will be better able to add more to the part about which lenses fits when & how when we know which of the 3 Leicaflexes you have.

Best Regards,

Michael 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[BrianAre]

On 4/9/2021 at 5:59 PM, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Brian,

Welcome to the Forum,

Enjoy your new camera. The 3 original Leicaflex Cameras are some of the nicest & best handling film cameras that have been made by anyone.

Could you please clarify for me if your camera is the camera with the external meter cell on the pentaprism? Or is it the camera with a light bulb & lightning bolt in the front where the flash sockets are? Or is it the camera with an "X" & an "M" in the front where the flash sockets are?

You have actually asked 2 different questions. The first question is: Will lenses or teleconverters, etc. designed to be used on the later cameras: R3 thru R9 work on the 3 earlier Leicaflex cameras?

The quick answer is: Often no. Altho sometimes yes & other times with modification yes. Like a lot of things Leitz/Leica there are a lot of qualifications & exceptions in this answer. Welcome to the World of Leitz/ Leica. A lot of people like it even with its sometimes complexities.

I need to know which of the 3 original Leicaflex models you have before  can answer this part further.

Let me answer the second question: Teleconverter or second lens in a following Post.

I'll be back.

Best Regards,

Michael

Hi Michael!

Thank you so much for taking the time to write me a great reply and welcome. Sorry for my own late reply, but the weekend got the best of me, leaving me with little time to give a proper post.

I did not know there was so much variation with the Leicaflex SL1. I am lucky enough to have the version with the light bulb and lightning bolt where the flash sockets are. If you need any more information, I think I should be able to upload a photo of it.

If there is a definitive answer, I would also like to know what type of lenses I should be looking for to ensure they will fit on this camera. I know it is an 'r-mount' but I guess there are subtle differences to they type that fits. Is there anyway to know which ones would fit if I buy online?

All the best and thanks again!

Brian

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Brian,

I hope your weekend was enjoyable.

The reason I asked the question the way that I did is that there are 3 different Leicaflex models (Along with some variations within models.) before the beginning of the "R" series. The "R" series is the beginning of the the public period of the official Leitz - Minolta co-operation. The Leitz - Minolta co-operation cameras begin with the R3.

Your camera is from the earlier Leitz without Minolta co-operation cameras.

The original Leicaflex is called "Leicaflex" or "Original Lecaflex" or "Standard Leicaflex". This has a meter cell on the outside of the pentaprism. The metering needles & the shutter speed being used are displayed on the inside. There is also the usual shutter speed wheel on the outside. It says "Leicaflex" on the body.

The next model, which has a behind the lens meter, is a "Leicaflex SL". It has "Leicaflex" written on the body and "SL" written on the Pentaprism.

The third Leicaflex is a Leicaflex SL2. It has "Leicaflex" written on the pentaprism and "SL2" written on the body.

Your answer as to which Leicaflex model you have is fine. My question could have been better. 

Which model is it that you have? 

It is taking a while but don't worry, we will get there.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

 

[BrianAre]

6 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Brian,

I hope your weekend was enjoyable.

The reason I asked the question the way that I did is that there are 3 different Leicaflex models (Along with some variations within models.) before the beginning of the "R" series. The "R" series is the beginning of the the public period of the official Leitz - Minolta co-operation. The Leitz - Minolta co-operation cameras begin with the R3.

Your camera is from the earlier Leitz without Minolta co-operation cameras.

The original Leicaflex is called "Leicaflex" or "Original Lecaflex" or "Standard Leicaflex". This has a meter cell on the outside of the pentaprism. The metering needles & the shutter speed being used are displayed on the inside. There is also the usual shutter speed wheel on the outside. It says "Leicaflex" on the body.

The next model, which has a behind the lens meter, is a "Leicaflex SL". It has "Leicaflex" written on the body and "SL" written on the Pentaprism.

The third Leicaflex is a Leicaflex SL2. It has "Leicaflex" written on the pentaprism and "SL2" written on the body.

Your answer as to which Leicaflex model you have is fine. My question could have been better. 

Which model is it that you have? 

It is taking a while but don't worry, we will get there.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

 

Hey Micheal,

Thank you so much for your patience. This camera is so amazing; I am glad to learn more about it from an expert like yourself.

I attached a picture for your convenience, but based on what you wrote, it looks like this is the Leicaflex SL.

Hope you had a great weekend too. I greatly appreciate you taking the time!

Brian

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[Michael Geschlecht]

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Hello Brian,

You are correct. This is a Leicaflex SL. The second Leicaflex model. Yours is the regular version. There is also a motor compatible version which looks the same as yours & is identifiable because of slightly different engraving. You have a very nice camera. Some people might say that there are none that are better. The version you have came with 2 different viewing screens. Most have a microprism screen with a 7mm diameter microprism circle made of slightly larger microprisims for a central focusing patch. A person could also order a plain ground glass with the same 7mm central focusing patch deliniated. The patch exactly defines the limit of the behind the lens meter. These 2 screens are not user interchangable as the later "R" camera screens are.

It is important to know the specific Leicaflex model in order to answer your original question about teleconverters. Now we know.

By the way, it might be good to have a Leicaflex SL instruction manual or/& a book about using 1 or all of the Leicaflexes since a lot of how all of them work is pretty much the same. Altho there are some differences. You might look for "Leicaflex System Of Photography" by Grande & Nathan. A small but very good & very complete book about your camera. You might also look at "The Leica & Leicaflex Way" by Mathesen. A fatter book. Also very good. Either is fine. If you have both they complement each other. There are also a number of others which are fine.

I'll be back.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Brian,

If you "click" the "Leica WIKI" at the top of this page. Then "click" the "English version" which will appear below that, just to your left. Then scroll down to & "click" "Leica R cameras". Then go to "Leicaflex SL". Then "click" the picture. Then scroll down to the instruction manual. Then "click" & then you can read the manual for your camera.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

[BrianAre]

4 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Brian,

You are correct. This is a Leicaflex SL. The second Leicaflex model. Yours is the regular version. There is also a motor compatible version which looks the same as yours & is identifiable because of slightly different engraving. You have a very nice camera. Some people might say that there are none that are better. The version you have came with 2 different viewing screens. Most have a microprism screen with a 7mm diameter microprism circle made of slightly larger microprisims for a central focusing patch. A person could also order a plain ground glass with the same 7mm central focusing patch deliniated. The patch exactly defines the limit of the behind the lens meter. These 2 screens are not user interchangable as the later "R" camera screens are.

It is important to know the specific Leicaflex model in order to answer your original question about teleconverters. Now we know.

By the way, it might be good to have a Leicaflex SL instruction manual or/& a book about using 1 or all of the Leicaflexes since a lot of how all of them work is pretty much the same. Altho there are some differences. You might look for "Leicaflex System Of Photography" by Grande & Nathan. A small but very good & very complete book about your camera. You might also look at "The Leica & Leicaflex Way" by Mathesen. A fatter book. Also very good. Either is fine. If you have both they complement each other. There are also a number of others which are fine.

I'll be back.

Best Regards,

Michael

The microprism screen is one of my favorite aspects of the camera. I love the split level focusing mechanism.

I've read the manual for the camera before too but thanks for letting me know I can get it here.

However, when I buy a lens online is there any way to ensure it will fit before I purchase it?

And are there any 2x teleconverters that would fit the mount?

Edited April 13, 2021 by BrianAre

[a.noctilux]

4 hours ago, BrianAre said:

...

And are there any 2x teleconverters that would fit the mount?

Leica x2 # 11237 Extender-R for Leicaflex SL/SL2,

like this one

https://www.french-camera.com/leica-extenderr-2x-pour-leicaflex-slsl-bel-etat-xml-246_385-13901.html

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

If I recall well, the x2 is only for use with lens 50mm and more

Edited April 13, 2021 by a.noctilux

[BrianAre]

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

If I recall well, the x2 is only for use with lens 50mm and more

 

So does this mean that this extender won't work on my 28mm Tamron lens?

Thanks for your reply btw. That link is great. I am probably going to buy it from the website : )

I'm kind of scared to buy it from that website, because I do not see any return policy. Also, I do not speak french so I am not sure how I would communicate with the owners if I have an issue... Thoughts?

Edited April 14, 2021 by BrianAre

[masjah]

Brian, just to answer your other question about which lenses will fit on your SL camera. You need lenses described as either "2 cam" or "3 cam". NOT "3rd cam" or "R cam only" which don't have cams 1 and 2 which are actually what you need. NOT "rom" lenses either. BEWARE: Many dealers (and others) are sloppy about distinguishing between "3 cam" and "3rd cam", so if you are buying, do make sure that such a lens does indeed have all three cams, and not just the 3rd cam only. (A friend of mine acquired a Leicaflex SL2 for nostalgic reasons, and needed a 50/2 for it  because his existing lens was 3rd cam only. He bought a lens from a well-known dealer described as "3 cam" only to find it was 3rd cam only, and he had to return it. The dealer was though very apologetic and took it back without question.)

[jaapv]

Be aware that these older extenders do not have the image quality that the later "APO" version (which won't fit your camera without modification) have. In all cases a prime lens will give better results. The lens speed will be halved by a 2x extender and you must stop down for best quality as well.  The reason that Leica does not recommend the use on shorter focal lengths is a deplorable image quality and vignetting. 

As a Summicron R 50 first version, 3 cam will cost 500$ max on eBay, this would be a far better investment than a Tamron on extender. The quality of your photographs will improve dramatically. You can use an extender on the 50 mm to create a 100 mm portrait lens, though.

[a.noctilux]

Brian, don't bother,

Luc Bouvier can be contacted in english, clic on the top right, British flag.

You have this page

You can use x2 to discover the Leica R world with some restrictions like one Jaap described.

With 28mm plus x2 you would not be happy with the results.

...

For more satisfaction, I think that Summicron-R 50mm with right R mount like this one, can be "happy choice" companion for your Leicaflex SL

seen at same site, a bargain for such a nice lens

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[BrianAre]

8 hours ago, masjah said:

Brian, just to answer your other question about which lenses will fit on your SL camera. You need lenses described as either "2 cam" or "3 cam". NOT "3rd cam" or "R cam only" which don't have cams 1 and 2 which are actually what you need. NOT "rom" lenses either. BEWARE: Many dealers (and others) are sloppy about distinguishing between "3 cam" and "3rd cam", so if you are buying, do make sure that such a lens does indeed have all three cams, and not just the 3rd cam only. (A friend of mine acquired a Leicaflex SL2 for nostalgic reasons, and needed a 50/2 for it  because his existing lens was 3rd cam only. He bought a lens from a well-known dealer described as "3 cam" only to find it was 3rd cam only, and he had to return it. The dealer was though very apologetic and took it back without question.)

Thank you! I was confused about the cam system, but I looked up an article after I read your post. I understand it now!

 

7 hours ago, jaapv said:

Be aware that these older extenders do not have the image quality that the later "APO" version (which won't fit your camera without modification) have. In all cases a prime lens will give better results. The lens speed will be halved by a 2x extender and you must stop down for best quality as well.  The reason that Leica does not recommend the use on shorter focal lengths is a deplorable image quality and vignetting. 

As a Summicron R 50 first version, 3 cam will cost 500$ max on eBay, this would be a far better investment than a Tamron on extender. The quality of your photographs will improve dramatically. You can use an extender on the 50 mm to create a 100 mm portrait lens, though.

 

5 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Brian, don't bother,

Luc Bouvier can be contacted in english, clic on the top right, British flag.

You have this page

You can use x2 to discover the Leica R world with some restrictions like one Jaap described.

With 28mm plus x2 you would not be happy with the results.

...

For more satisfaction, I think that Summicron-R 50mm with right R mount like this one, can be "happy choice" companion for your Leicaflex SL

seen at same site, a bargain for such a nice lens

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Dang, you both are right. I think I will just save up a couple hundred more dollars and get a prime 50mm Summicron-R like you guys suggest.

Thank you all so much for looking out! Appreciate it. I learned a lot : )

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Brian,

I'm back. A lot of good advice here. Another thought, if you like the lens that you have now & are looking for a medium telephoto lens you might want to look at the 90mm Elmarit, version I that I suggested before. It might not cost as much as the 50mm Summicron & appropriate adapter together & may well fulfill your needs. Either way you will have a nice camera & lenses combination.

By the way, when you wrote "split level focusing mechanism" in your Post #9 above: Could you describe that please. Some of the Leicaflex SL cameras had different focusing screens than some of the others did. Special order.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited April 16, 2021 by Michael Geschlecht

[BrianAre]

2 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Brian,

I'm back. A lot of good advice here. Another thought, if you like the lens that you have now & are looking for a medium telephoto lens you might want to look at the 90mm Elmarit, version I that I suggested before. It might not cost as much as the 50mm Summicron & appropriate adapter together & may well fulfill your needs. Either way you will have a nice camera & lenses combination.

By the way, when you wrote "split level focusing mechanism" in your Post #9 above: Could you describe that please. Some of the Leicaflex SL cameras had different focusing screens than some of the others did. Special order.

Best Regards,

Michael

Oh, yeah! I will look into that lens as well. [edit: just looked into it. Maybe I'm not looking at the right one, but the ones I have found have a similar price to the Summicron]

And 'split level focusing' is what I used to describe it myself. I am not sure if it is the proper term, but what I mean by it is this:

When I look through the view-finder, there is a circle in the middle with a center line through it. If the image is out of focus, the image gets 'splits' at that center line. As you turn the focus ring, the image gets un-split the closer you get to focusing. That's the best way I can explain it.

Edited April 16, 2021 by BrianAre

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Brian,

Your explanation is quite good. That seems to be an SL2 focusing screen put into an SL. Things like that were done on special order back when the Leicaflex models were current production. Interesting.

Is the 50mm Summicron that you are looking at a Series VI filter, Version I or is it a Series VII/ E55 filter, Version II?

If the 90mm Elmarit Version I is the same cost as the 50mm Summicron, whichever version, then: If you want to concentrate on medium telephoto the 90mm lens alone is doable while the 50mm lens & the teleconverter together give you 2 lenses: 50mm & 100mm. Keep in mind: 90mm & 100mm lenses are pretty much the same in terms of use. You could also get the 90mm & the teleconverter which would give you 90mm & 180mm. Also quite useful.

Somethings to think about.

Best Regards,

Michael

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[telyt]

On 4/14/2021 at 8:40 AM, BrianAre said:

Thank you! I was confused about the cam system, but I looked up an article after I read your post. I understand it now!

There's more to the cams than the number and type of cams.  It's true that your beautiful Leicaflex SL (my all-time favorite film camera) uses 2- or 3-cam lenses, but not all of them.  There are some lenses that protrude too far into the mirror chamber and are for the Leicaflex SL2 only (or, with the 3rd cam, any R body), including the Leica-R 15mm, 2nd-version 19mm, 24mm, 35mm Summilux, last version of the 50mm Summilux-R, 80-200mm f/4.5 and likely more (some wide-angle zooms come to mind).

Regarding extenders, the only one originally made to fit the Leicaflex SL is the one a.noctilux mentioned.  The 1.4x APO-Extender-R can be modified to fit the SL (or, the SL can be modified to use the 1.4x extender) but there are a limited number of lenses that work with this extender.