SL2-S and Atomos Ninja V L-Log in new firmware - ProRes RAW next?

[BernardC]

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On 3/5/2021 at 12:18 PM, CCC said:

BRAW is not a real RAW, it's just marketed as RAW

There is no definition of RAW for video. All RAW video has been compressed since day 1 (Kodak Cineon). ProRes Raw and BRAW use some pre-processing, but they are just as raw as other raw video format.

The other "it's not really raw" complaint is when the file doesn't have the same number of pixels as the sensor. That's the case with all the latest Sony cine cameras, for instance. It's also the case with the Sigma fp, which outputs "4K raw" in both full-frame and super-35.

The only thing that most cine raw formats have in common is that they have one luminance value per pixel (not 3 for RGB), and their colour balance is not "baked-in", although it is generally included in metadata. Beyond that, anything goes: log curves, compression algorithms, etc.

[Aaron Daniel]

13 hours ago, Slender said:

I think (we) need to try 3 things separatly to have a definitive answer on what works best (for us) with L-Log

• Internal on SD card as it comes
• External to Ninja5 with the L-Log profile selected.
• No profile on Atomos, Legalize ON and OFF, make a note and see what happens in your NLE of choice.

Aah yes, this sounds like a good comparison. I admit I don't have extensive experience with NLE's other than Premiere and Final Cut Pro. I would be glad to test this out on FCP shortly. From personal experience editing files from each category, I suspect there will only be very minimal differences. I agree that it truly depends on what works best for us in our different situations (i.e. with available equipment and software opportunity).

[Aaron Daniel]

6 hours ago, Photoworks said:

if you select a camera it is always greyed out. You really need to turn on the camera setting is you want to convert to a different in the ninja during filming. 

In DaVinci you can change clip attribute to FULL data level and then you result is the same. it is easy to do in post, and If you see the clip change and match to the SD recording... Legalize is the issue!

Do you mean to say that I should not use the newly updated Leica option in the Atomos? I agree that selecting the legalize option in the Ninja V brings the external recording closer to the internal recording colours when brought into FCP (I sadly cannot set Data Levels to "Full" in final cut 😅). Perhaps this is the best option for matching in FCP– but I still think it confusing as to why Leica and Atomos did not address this with their update.

[Aaron Daniel]

10 hours ago, hansvons said:

The issue with legal range or non-legal range has to do with Leica's usage of 4:2:2 YUV colour space in their codec and their decision to leverage the full range option in their internally recorded 4:2:2 footage. When ingesting footage in an NLE, it's worth checking whether the footage shows full range (non-legal) levels or studio swing (legal) levels. The latter will substantially crop the blacks and whites due to the Leica's behaviour to record full range video.

Thanks so much, Hans! I think you've really addressed my confusion here haha. It does seem to make sense that Leica's internal 422 codec is indeed still different than the way Atomos encodes their 422 footage. Unfortunately I cannot change to full range data levels in my editor, Final Cut Pro 🙈 If you know of a way, that would be amazing! But as of now, I think the quickest way to match internal and external L-log is turning on the legalize option externally

[Photoworks]

17 minutes ago, Aaron Daniel said:

Do you mean to say that I should not use the newly updated Leica option in the Atomos? I agree that selecting the legalize option in the Ninja V brings the external recording closer to the internal recording colours when brought into FCP (I sadly cannot set Data Levels to "Full" in final cut 😅). Perhaps this is the best option for matching in FCP– but I still think it confusing as to why Leica and Atomos did not address this with their update.

why do you say it is a bug. perhaps I little more research is required. In any can yes that is what I am saying.

When you activate the camera settings you gain some monitoring options with camera profiles and 2020. It is most useful when going out to steaming and converted file in Atomos systems. Not ideal for postproduction of L-Log files.

[Aaron Daniel]

4 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

why do you say it is a bug. perhaps I little more research is required. In any can yes that is what I am saying.

When you activate the camera settings you gain some monitoring options with camera profiles and 2020. It is most useful when going out to steaming and converted file in Atomos systems. Not ideal for postproduction of L-Log files.

Aaahh thanks so much for your help! I will continue to legalize my external footage

[Slender]

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On 3/6/2021 at 11:09 PM, Aaron Daniel said:

Aaahh thanks so much for your help! I will continue to legalize my external footage

I did a quick comparison of all that was available for me to compare with my SL2 at its "best" setting available: h264 .MOV - C4K DCI - All-i 400Mbp/s, in APS-C, in L-Log.

1. Internal
2. External on Atomos Ninja with L-Log Profile on
3. External on Atomos Ninja without Profile, LEGAL OFF
4. External on Atomos Ninja without Profile, LEGAL ON.

And, as is discussed on this other thread, I could't see a difference (at a quick glance) between 1 and 2 in my Final Cut Pro. They behaved very well if you apply a color wheel before your Lut effect, I found it an easy way to shoot-edit-grade for basic stuff.... I used to know more about DaVinci when I was in film school 10 years ago lol.... Need to take another look.

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