Lens crisis

[ocean2059]

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3 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

yeah..exactly! when i use it on film i just leave it at f8 & change the shutter speed instead & if i use it on the M9M i leave it at either f3.5 or f8 & let the camera do the rest. 

still it's much easier to use a lens you can control the aperture to your liking, but I do love the rendering & small size of the elmar, never disappoints me and most times I always get positively surprised with the output!

I also do that most with my Summaron-M 28 (reissue), just leave the aperture open at f/5.6, and adjust the focus distance between 2-5 meters.

Over the years, my taste on lens also has shifted depending on the film and sensor that I use. Now I prefer some of older lenses, such as Summicron 50mm (rigid), and Summicron 35mm (8-E), particularly on my M9M body.  

My suggestion to @Drmat are 1) don't need sell anything unless for financial reasons; 2) take a bit of your time to discover and enjoy each on the lenses that you have before your next purchase; 3) if you really like some of the vintage Leica lenses of the 60's, consider adding a Summicron 50mm (rigid) and it's a good match with M10M; 4) if you are going to add a Summilux 50mm with what you already have, go with the version 3 pre ASPH,  the 0.7m MFD is very useful, and 4) if you do decide to sell all your 50mm lenses, then consider getting the Summilux-M 50 ASPH.

 

[shirubadanieru]

12 minutes ago, ocean2059 said:

I also do that most with my Summaron-M 28 (reissue), just leave the aperture open at f/5.6, and adjust the focus distance between 2-5 meters.

Over the years, my taste on lens also has shifted depending on the film and sensor that I use. Now I prefer some of older lenses, such as Summicron 50mm (rigid), and Summicron 35mm (8-E), particularly on my M9M body.  

My suggestion to @Drmat are 1) don't need sell anything unless for financial reasons; 2) take a bit of your time to discover and enjoy each on the lenses that you have before your next purchase; 3) if you really like some of the vintage Leica lenses of the 60's, consider adding a Summicron 50mm (rigid) and it's a good match with M10M; 4) if you are going to add a Summilux 50mm with what you already have, go with the version 3 pre ASPH,  the 0.7m MFD is very useful, and 4) if you do decide to sell all your 50mm lenses, then consider getting the Summilux-M 50 ASPH.

 

I like your taste in Lens and Cameras : ) Those two (rigid & 8e) are definitely in my Top 3 : ) (my other top 3 lens is the summilux 35 pre-asph by the way). 

The summaron remake is great too I used to have it before I trimmed down my lens to just two focal lengths (35 / 50) but one could well go with a 28 / 50 combo instead and keep that lovely summaron! It’s so tiny and such a pleasure to use, especially on a M9M (which I also own) 

[ocean2059]

18 minutes ago, Drmat said:

I like the Elmar-M.  However, i find that the detail at distance is kind of non-existent until you stop down to f8 on my M10M.  It is as if it cannot focus properly at infinity at wide apertures.  Maybe it is that I am used to the APO on the monochrom and have unrealistic expectations  I did find the performance surprising because I have vintage lenses that do a much better job.  It does a great job at more modest focus distances, even wide open.  I purchased the lens recently from a US Leica store, so i trust it is in proper working order.  I had hoped this would be a nice walk around lens and it does produce excellent images for most photography, but it is just not up to my personal standards in what I was hoping to get out of the lens.  This one is up for sale.

As for the other two 50s.  I think I will sit on them a bit longer, or at least until i get a chance to use them for some proper photo making.  They are very different tools and appeal to different aesthetic needs.  I think if i were forced to keep one it would be the APO as it is just a better all around lens.  I think my real struggle is that I can potentially replace both the APO and Noct for a Lux at 1/4 the price and still produce images that are high quality.  I feel that my pixel peeping is getting the better of me (what can i say, i am a trained scientist and it is this attention to minute details that makes me good at that job, while often miserable in life!).

If you asked me 5 years ago what was my dream camera setup I would have said a leica M (preferably monochrom) with a 50 lux.  That just seemed such an abstract idea given what I had to spend on a camera and lens.  It is funny how I ran right past my aspiration...  

Elmar-M 50 is a modified Zeiss Tessar design that doesn't have the resolution of APO 50, for sure. But it shins in golden light condition with your subject at 2-10m distance and f/5.6. I use it as a daytime city travel lens and it find it very special.  For infinity distance, it's sufficient sharp if you don't look at your images at 200% of pixel level. It takes a bit time to really appreciate some of the strengths of the Elmar-M 50. I sold a copy of that lenses some years and re-purchase it later again. 

If for any reason that I have to let everything go, but to keep one camera with one lens, it will be a Summilux-M 50 ASPH on a M monochrom.  

[didier]

37 minutes ago, Drmat said:

 

I like the Elmar-M.  However, i find that the detail at distance is kind of non-existent until you stop down to f8 on my M10M.  It is as if it cannot focus properly at infinity at wide apertures.  Maybe it is that I am used to the APO on the monochrom and have unrealistic expectations  I did find the performance surprising because I have vintage lenses that do a much better job.  It does a great job at more modest focus distances, even wide open.  I purchased the lens recently from a US Leica store, so i trust it is in proper working order.  I had hoped this would be a nice walk around lens and it does produce excellent images for most photography, but it is just not up to my personal standards in what I was hoping to get out of the lens.  

 

I have the same feeling and that is why I like / prefer the  Elmar-M for close-ups / portraits. 

[ocean2059]

17 minutes ago, shirubadanieru said:

I like your taste in Lens and Cameras : ) Those two (rigid & 8e) are definitely in my Top 3 : ) (my other top 3 lens is the summilux 35 pre-asph by the way). 

The summaron remake is great too I used to have it before I trimmed down my lens to just two focal lengths (35 / 50) but one could well go with a 28 / 50 combo instead and keep that lovely summaron! It’s so tiny and such a pleasure to use, especially on a M9M (which I also own) 

Thank you for your comments. I am glad that we both enjoy these vintage Leica lenses. I am looking for a good copy of the Summilux 35mm pre-ASPH lens but somehow they are a bit difficult to find. 

[Guest Nowhereman]

@Drmat - If you still want to sell any of the lenses, considering what's been posted, I would sell only the 50 Summicron APO. I wouldn't sell the Noctilux, considering what you have done with it, though my own preference is the Summilux 50 pre-ASPH, whose rendition I prefer to the that of the Summilux 50 ASPH, as in the first two images below. 

As for the Elmar-M 50, I assume you wouldn't get much for it so, unless I'm wrong, I would keep it. Some have recommended getting the Summicron Rigid 50, presumably to replace the Summicron 50 APO. It's a great lens but my favorite is the DR Summicron 50, which is great bargain and is the same lens as the Rigid but has the close-up goggles: although I rarely shoot macro I've liked this lens when I need to, as in the two fish images below, one with film and the other with the M10. 

M6 | Summilux 50 pre-ASPH | Tri-X  | f/1.4 | Bangkok

M-Monochrom | Summilux 50 pre-ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.8 | 1/125 | Paris

 

M6 | DR Summicron w/goggles | Neopan 1600 | Hua Hin

M10 | DR Summicron w/goggles | ISO 6400 | f/4.0 | 1/60 sec | Chiang Mai 

M10 | DR Summicron | ISO 200 | f/4.0 | 1/350 sec | Wiang Pa Pao 

M-Monochrom | DR Summicron | ISO 200 | f/2.0 | 1/750 sec | Bangkok

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M10 | DR Summicron | ISO 400 | f/5.6 | 1/60 sec | Bangkok'________________________
Frog Leaping photobook

Edited February 15, 2021 by Nowhereman

[Drmat]

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@Nowhereman - thank you for the input.  Your images are fantastic and truly prove it is not the lens but who is behind it (and sometimes what is in front of it) that makes the difference!

There is no doubt the APO is special, but it does feel like a bit of a luxury and the difference I tend to see in my images with that over any of the other modern lenses is often restricted to close inspection on my photography monitor.  I tend not to see it in the prints I make (generally 10x15) or internet posts, which seems to be the majority of how we present these days.  A lot of my camera gear acquisition is about what might be as opposed to what is!

[logan2z]

15 hours ago, Drmat said:

@steve 1959 - let’s face it, if there were no Covid crisis I would be out making photos instead of pixel peeping and lamenting gear purchases!

If you're simply bored at home (like many of us) I would suggest focusing on photography rather than gear.  Buy a stack of photo books and study the work of some great photographers.  I think you'll find it does a lot more for the quality of your photographs than worrying about which 50mm lens to keep.   

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

Leica angst.  Definitely first world problem.  We've all been there.  Here's a solution -- keep the 35 focal length and get rid of the rest.  Master the 35 and that's all you need.  Master that lens and that's all you want.  Don't really need both a 50 and a 35.  The 35 can do everything a 50 can do (pretty much) but the converse isn't always true.  It's a harder lens to use though.  Anyway, sell the 50's, take the cash and go travel.  But ... I know what it's like.  I've been buying and selling Leica gear for three decades.  Realize there's no correlations between price of an optic and good pics.  Go through past pics and see which lens took the best pics.  Honestly answer the question of which lens you like to use.  Answer to those questions should point you in the correct direction.  Do realize though, most photographers want some variety.  Creative types get bored easily.  Different lenses, different focal lengths, different places, can provide that variety.  

Edited February 15, 2021 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[johnkunstadter]

7 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

I love the Elmar f3.5 Red Dial! Crazy how good it is wide open for such an old design. It’s actually my favorite lens after the Rigid Summicron, but the problem is that it’s not great in terms of handling (changing aperture is a pain..).

 

5 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

On Elmar 50 or other LTM lenses with aperture settings "flaws",

I just take the habit NOT to set the aperture as more modern lenses.

I have learned habit to think those as two apertures lenses set for the whole day as ( for example f/3.5 OR f/6.3/8 ) so I do know what F setting it was for peace of mind without even looking, ...

specially when a colored filter fixed on the lens hiding the numbers.

Thank you for this very practical suggestion, a.noctilux; I look forward to trying it with my Elmar 50/3.5 Red Scale (bought with pleasure from Reg Roach at Croydon Photo Centre) which, as shirubadanieru notes, is astoundingly good wide open.  Another solution to the awkwardness of changing apertures on the Elmar 50/3.5 that you and shirubadanieru allude to is either the VOOLA aperture control ring or, even better (although certainly taking away from the compactness of the lens) the VALOO combination lens hood and aperture control ring.

[a.noctilux]

Thanks John for your suggestion of VALOO and VOOLA.

I think that I have one of those somewhere, my memory feeling was (is) that the good (very thick/robust) device doubled the Elmar 50 weight (with exageration, I think of the FIKUS ! ).

I prefer SOOGZ to put E39 colored filter that I use with Monochrom.

SOOGZ is not compatible with those aperture setting devices.

Then if I use A36 filters that I have, no way to put Valoo/Voola on Elmar.

Arnaud

Edited February 15, 2021 by a.noctilux

[Jul]

Not easy to find but E19 screw-in filters are what you need on on f/3.5 Elmars to be able to change aperture with filter on.

[shirubadanieru]

2 hours ago, Jul said:

Not easy to find but E19 screw-in filters are what you need on on f/3.5 Elmars to be able to change aperture with filter on.

 

4 hours ago, johnkunstadter said:

VALOO combination lens hood and aperture control ring.

 

3 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Thanks John for your suggestion of VALOO and VOOLA.

By far the the best 3rd party accessory for the Elmar (much better than any original hood is this: http://flashbackcamera.jp/fb-07-lens-hood.html Unfortunately they've been sold out for a while, but I have a spare if anyone's interested drop me a message. For filters this is the one to get: https://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1133786.html super thin & works well with cap & also the above hood too 

 

[Drmat]

Was playing with the Elmar-m 50mm today on my M10P.  Until last week I had not owned a camera capable of colour for over a year.  I have to say I find the colours coming out of that lens very interesting.  Quite muted and very appealing, especially on gloomy days.

[Ko.Fe.]

No way it is lens crisis. It is what to buy and try next crisis. 

[Drmat]

Update - I tested the market on my lenses.  I had some interest in the noctilux, but was suddenly overwhelmed by an uneasy feeling, so that says to me I can’t part with it.  The APO is still on the table (no offers yet).  Perhaps that is the best test of if you want something... can you part with it when the option becomes a reality?

in the meantime I am considering a visoflex to get the most out of my noctilux.  One thing I notice is the focus peaking on live view is not great at F1 (maybe it is hard to catch contrast or maybe I am not steady when using live view).  How do people feel about the visoflex with the noctilux on the m10/m10m?

[Guest Nowhereman]

^ Not really relevant to your considerations, I had the Noctilux f/1 and the Summilux 75 and sold them both for the same reason: at maximum aperture I found the OOF rendition "too exquisite" (not what I was after); and at smaller apertures (which I used for street photography), I found the focus throw too long for the "immediacy" I wanted. Having bought the Noctilux in Paris for the equivalent of $2,400, I sold it for the same price in Bangkok — only to see the price double a few months later, and subsequently triple. (As a correction to one of the images I posted in post #66 above, here is the version I meant to post rather than the excessively dark one that I posted by mistake: the man with the poodle is supposed be dark, but not so dark as to be indistinguishable.)

M-Monochrom | Summilux 50 pre-ASPH | ISO 640 | f/2.8 | 1/125 | Paris

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Frog Leaping photobook

[mckay3d]

On 2/14/2021 at 11:57 AM, Drmat said:

@wda that is good advice.  Probably too soon to decide.  My wife says the same thing, only she says 1 year!

I have found that it is always good to listen to your wife.  "Happy Wife, Happy Life"

[Gobert]

17 hours ago, mckay3d said:

I have found that it is always good to listen to your wife.  "Happy Wife, Happy Life"

 My wife only says: “no more lenses”.

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