Poor man's RF lens concept.

[Ko.Fe.]

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1 hour ago, Martin B said:

It's rare but with patience and a bit of luck you can find some Leica lenses 50 mm and wider in nearly mint condition in the $500 range. Impossible on ebay though - most Leica lenses tend to be on the pricier side there currently. Two years ago I found a mint 50/1.5 Summarit for $500 locally on Craigslist. Since the pandemic, online lens prices just have skyrocketed including shipping and taxes. All lens items I bought since the pandemic were through safe local person-to-person sales. Works similar to antenna TV to cable, then to streaming - and now going back to antenna due to price gauging with internet and app fees rising. 

I had non scratched Summarit for under $200 which was sold to me by ex ELC person who was known as Bodo.

He gave me Summar, non scratched for under 100. About six or so years ago. I had some other less old Leitz lenses via local sales. For good price.

It was around 2016 or so.

All are gone now and no regrets. Lenses on photo in OP are this good.

My only remaining Leica lens is Summarit-M 35 2.5. Was purchased new from SK seller on eBay. For 1200 usd with low cost shipping and small tax.

The only tele I'm finding worth to pay for Leitz label now is 90/4 Elmar. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Ko.Fe.

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[derleicaman]

7 hours ago, Ecar said:

 

Haha - the revenge of Stephen K. Lee 😁

For those who don't remember - or weren't around - he was the CEO of Leica when the M8, the first digital M, was introduced. He claimed that the camera would be "perpetually upgradeable"... He was fired after a few months' tenure as a result - although I'm not sure this was the only reason for his demise.

Yes, I do remember Stephen Lee. I still have his business card in my collection. Stefan Daniel told me the same thing, that the M8 was going to be upgradable with improved sensors, etc. to be able to be retrofitted.

Well, that didn’t turn out as planned, did it. Leica has made a lot of progress over the past 15 years. I am happy as a clam with my M10-P, but I know even better cameras are in the future.

I just updated the camera with the latest firmware, and the Computational Imaging with perspective control is a revelation. At least some of the “upgradability” of the M is reality.

 

[pippy]

6 hours ago, Martin B said:

...Two years ago I found a mint 50/1.5 Summarit for $500 locally on Craigslist. Since the pandemic, online lens prices just have skyrocketed including shipping and taxes.

Coincidentally, Martin, just last week I picked up a '53 50mm f1.5 Summarit in M-mount (a lens whose performance I've discussed elsewhere) for a similar price from a London dealership and there have been a couple more - such as a v1 50mm Summicron LTM - which have been of interest but anything wider seems to have become to my mind Crazy-Money. As an example there is currently a 35mm f2.8 Summaron advertised from a well-known dealership and the asking price is £1,290 which works out a shade over $1,750 USD.

I blame Leica owners for pushing up these prices....

Philip.

Edited February 4, 2021 by pippy

[andybarton]

15 hours ago, colonel said:

never happen

1. sensor upgrades need different electronics. change whole camera

2. cpu needs different board

3. body designs change over time

ends up costing as much as a new body

 

Hasselblad seem to be able to do it. With their partners, they make different backs for even 1950s 500-series cameras.

Their modular system is obviously the key there.

It's completely impractical for a camera such as an M, though, for all the above reasons.

[pgk]

Within three years I have bought 35/2 and 28/2.8 M lenses at sub-£500 (the asking) prices locally, had them serviced, used them and then traded them as neither offered me any advantages over what I already had. Both were interesting lenses with 'character' but didn't suit my requirements. The net result was that I had tried some interesting lenses and actually came out a little on top and still sold them on at under the 'going rate' so somebody else got a good deal with a fully serviced lens. Patience is required, there are still well-priced lenses out there. The trick is to know what can be serviced and be repared to wait a few months whilst the lenses are derived, and of course to budget in the servicing. Both these lenses were pristine optically after cleaning - they had simply een put away for a couple of decades and had minor haze and were a little stiff in operation. Servicing wa not expensive.

[Martin B]

8 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

I had non scratched Summarit for under $200 which was sold to me by ex ELC person who was known as Bodo.

He gave me Summar, non scratched for under 100. About six or so years ago. I had some other less old Leitz lenses via local sales. For good price.

It was around 2016 or so.

All are gone now and no regrets. Lenses on photo in OP are this good.

My only remaining Leica lens is Summarit-M 35 2.5. Was purchased new from SK seller on eBay. For 1200 usd with low cost shipping and small tax.

The only tele I'm finding worth to pay for Leitz label now is 90/4 Elmar. 

I got the Leica 35/2.4 Summarit-M last year when I bought a nearly unused M-E 240 for a very good deal locally. The mint lens was included. I paid roughly $1K for it. Since I already had other 35 mm M lenses, I was not to eager at the time to keep it. But after I tested it, I changed my mind - it is an absolutely wonderful lens with great bokeh. It actually complements my 35/2.0 Summicron vers. IV. 

I got a 90/4 Elmar-M lens (expandable) for free at a local auction when I won the bid for a Leica IIIc camera with 3 lenses for $250 - the 50/2 Summar LTM, the 90/4 Elmar-M, and a Hektor 135/4.5 M lens (originally the M lenses belonged to a Leica M3 which was not auctioned, but the seller didn't know the difference and put the M3 manual into the box with the IIIc and the two M lenses. I suspect the M3 was taken before it came to the auction house). 

Again, good deals found locally but not online. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Martin B

[jaques]

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nothing wrong with you lens selection.

i've owned m8, m9, m240 and now m10... but I've never bought a new Leica lens- or even a modern one.   Every Leica lens I have hails back to last century.  I have voightlander, ziess, slr lenses, all types of vintage lenses. I feel no need for modern  leica gla$$. As my old lenses all appreciate in value I can sell one or two and buy something new (old) whenever I feel the urge.

[Ko.Fe.]

11 hours ago, jaques said:

nothing wrong with you lens selection.

i've owned m8, m9, m240 and now m10... but I've never bought a new Leica lens- or even a modern one.   Every Leica lens I have hails back to last century.  I have voightlander, ziess, slr lenses, all types of vintage lenses. I feel no need for modern  leica gla$$. As my old lenses all appreciate in value I can sell one or two and buy something new (old) whenever I feel the urge.

This is were M system advantage is. It could take most of old LTM, M lenses and handle them better than any other digital camera. My J-3 works well on IIIf, M4-2 and M-E 220 and so is Russian Biogon 35 2.8. I see no need to overpay for Leica old or new 28 5.6, because Orion-15 is singing on digital M  .

[Ray Vonn]

Yes, small it what it’s all about, I certainly choose my lenses on that basis.  Otherwise I could get similar or same, sometimes better results using manual focus lenses on my dslr for an overall cheaper price. Manual focus though an ovf, at least with a Nikon body is just as satisfying an experience.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Ray Vonn

[cboy]

On 2/4/2021 at 4:44 AM, Ko.Fe. said:

Actually it is already happened and in different approaches. 

Its already happened with the ricoh gxr with the modulated mount including the g12 leica m mount unit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_GXR?wprov=sfla1

In speaking of modulation...Still hoping that sigma will make an iteration of the fp with intergrated hotshoe for an optical finder and so i can be done with leica m bodies lol.Now that would be a poormans leica rf; or if ricoh produces an updated rd rangefinder...

I would of thought a poor mans rf lens concept would be mic lenses....they are the cheapest

Edited February 6, 2021 by cboy

[Martin B]

Adding to Ko.Fe's points, I also believe it is now very hard for somebody new to Leica with regular income to get into the system with purely Leica-based gear. Not sure if it is caused by the pandemic with less supply available for lenses online, because of collectors driving up prices, or people simply hammering out the money for lenses. It might be a mix of all. When I looked at Leica lens prices for used 28 mm lenses, I left this option because I found (and still find!) the prices here unreal. I decided in the end to go with a used but mint CV 28/2 lens and never regretted my decision. I honestly have no idea what to expect more of this lens. If the Leica 28 mm lenses are better, it must be so marginal in difference that it really plays no role for my usage. I am just glad that more alternative options for M lenses hit the market from China, too - I have so far no experience with any of them, but they seem to be getting really good in quality now for a quite "low" price. The older Russian LTM lenses can be an excellent choice, too - from my experience it has become now a bit of a gamble to find a superb one. Different versions there also seem to make a difference in optical and built quality. But also for Russian lenses I saw prices going up quite a bit in recent years online. So far I have 8 Leica lenses (six M lenses and two LTMs), five Voigtlander M lenses, two Canon LTM lenses, one Konica-Minolta LTM, and one Russian Industar LTM lens. None of them is a real collector item, and I am using all of them in different situations and on different cameras. 

[Ko.Fe.]

13 hours ago, cboy said:

Its already happened with the ricoh gxr with the modulated mount including the g12 leica m mount unit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricoh_GXR?wprov=sfla1

In speaking of modulation...Still hoping that sigma will make an iteration of the fp with intergrated hotshoe for an optical finder and so i can be done with leica m bodies lol.Now that would be a poormans leica rf; or if ricoh produces an updated rd rangefinder...

I would of thought a poor mans rf lens concept would be mic lenses....they are the cheapest

FSU are the cheapest ones. They need CLA often right on arrival, but been FSU lenses they are not complicated.

I let go of old Leitz glass because it is prone to fungus, separation, but keeping FSU and old Canon LTM. 

Canon build is better for service than Leitz as well. I serviced FSU, Leitz and Canon RF lenses.

MiC doesn't fit into my poor man's RF lenses concept. They are too big, some are even bigger than Leica lenses.

It just doesn't make sense to haul big lens and blocking VF of M to me. I sold optically super 28 2.8 Elmarit-M III because it's VF blocking was causing framing troubles. 

FSU are cheaper are smaller than MiC. J-3 50 1.5, Jupiter-12 35 2.8 and tiny 28/6 Orion-15. All three are totally fine even on digital M. Even Russar 20/8 is great lens. But I have 200+$ tiny Color Skopar 21/4. Fine optically and build is awesome.

[Martin B]

2 hours ago, Ko.Fe. said:

FSU are the cheapest ones. They need CLA often right on arrival, but been FSU lenses they are not complicated.

I let go of old Leitz glass because it is prone to fungus, separation, but keeping FSU and old Canon LTM. 

Canon build is better for service than Leitz as well. I serviced FSU, Leitz and Canon RF lenses.

MiC doesn't fit into my poor man's RF lenses concept. They are too big, some are even bigger than Leica lenses.

It just doesn't make sense to haul big lens and blocking VF of M to me. I sold optically super 28 2.8 Elmarit-M III because it's VF blocking was causing framing troubles. 

FSU are cheaper are smaller than MiC. J-3 50 1.5, Jupiter-12 35 2.8 and tiny 28/6 Orion-15. All three are totally fine even on digital M. Even Russar 20/8 is great lens. But I have 200+$ tiny Color Skopar 21/4. Fine optically and build is awesome.

Lots of acronyms here.....I knew what FSU stands for, but what means MiC? 

[lct]

9 minutes ago, Martin B said:

I knew what FSU stands for [...]

So do i but i didn't know they are involved in optics.
https://tinyurl.com/yyce4la6
(just kidding)

[Ko.Fe.]

46 minutes ago, Martin B said:

Lots of acronyms here.....I knew what FSU stands for, but what means MiC? 

Made in China. 

BTW. I as FSU was at FSU. In Tallahassee, in 2019  .